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[RESOLVED] Problem with YouTube videos if cookies disabled

https://forums.informaction.com/viewtopic.php?t=7800

Page 4 of 5

Re: Problem with YouTube videos if cookies are disabled

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:12 am
by Tom T.
Ian wrote:5)After installing Fx I always disable geolocation (geo.enabled = false),in all the above tests, I did not change this setting (default geo.enabled = true)
probably does not affect the problem, because that is the first time I encountered bug with disabled geolocation.
IIUC, you're confirming that the geo setting does *not* affect the issue, correct? You experience it either way, correct?

Appreciate the further tests. I didn't do them, as none of them seemed to have any mechanism that would affect the issue, with the possible exception of "proxy".

We *really* appreciate it when posters who are using a proxy (I don't) say so in their first post in any given thread, or wherever relevant. Always good to see if disabling the proxy affects the issue -- it has, once or twice.
Ian wrote:Upd. Can`t post HTTP logs (1-st log - cookies enabled, 2-nd log - cookies disabled) using `code`tags , spam filter block it.
Hmm... wrapping in code tags is the usual way to get something past the spam filter. ... unless it's sheer length. How many kb?

Try PM-ing it to me, and I'll see if I can post your logs. If that doesn't work, I'll PM you a disposable e-mail address, and you can send it as a text file.

Re: Problem with YouTube videos if cookies are disabled

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:56 am
by Ian
Tom T. wrote: IIUC, you're confirming that the geo setting does *not* affect the issue, correct? You experience it either way, correct?
Yes, correct. (at least I have repeatedly tested this and found no differences).
Tom T. wrote: Appreciate the further tests. I didn't do them, as none of them seemed to have any mechanism that would affect the issue, with the possible exception of "proxy".
This I did it in desperation,because I had no new ideas :D
Tom T. wrote: We *really* appreciate it when posters who are using a proxy (I don't) say so in their first post in any given thread, or wherever relevant. Always good to see if disabling the proxy affects the issue -- it has, once or twice.
Normally i never use proxy. Yesterday, just for a test, I used proxy once (& not login to this board), hoping to find some correlation between bug producing and user`s location /IP range. (in the previous post I wrote about my assumptions, using the yellow font, sorry, if i violated board rules)
Tom T. wrote: Hmm... wrapping in code tags is the usual way to get something past the spam filter. ... unless it's sheer length. How many kb?
about 15 KB.
Tom T. wrote: Try PM-ing it to me, and I'll see if I can post your logs. If that doesn't work, I'll PM you a disposable e-mail address, and you can send it as a text file.
If need I can upload logs on some filehosting.

Re: Problem with YouTube videos if cookies are disabled

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:09 pm
by Tom T.
Just got it. Let me see if I can post it for you.

I didn't think there is anything wrong with using font colors. There is no indication that your message was edited by anyone. ... unless overuse by some users caused this to be restricted to the staff? :?:

Re: Problem with YouTube videos if cookies are disabled

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:12 pm
by Tom T.
Posted on behalf of Ian:
*********************************************

Logs format:
started,time,sent,received,method,result,type,url.
Cookies allowed

Code: Select all

00:00:16.622   0.411   758   20081   GET   200   text/html   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3np0DMxXKzM&feature=topvideos_music&html5=True
00:00:16.628   0.063   1177   28.8M   GET   206   video/webm (undefined)   http://o-o.preferred.arn06s03.v5.lscache2.c.youtube.com/videoplayback?sparams=id%2Cexpire%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Csource%2Cratebypass%2Ccp&fexp=904549%2C913513%2C904442%2C913601&itag=43&ip=77.0.0.0&signature=ADB26BA1FF89B35AFFBEFEFF1EBA851DBE94FD09.BCD9D34266FCAB982C4E0F1DF06A11315C6CB2AA&sver=3&ratebypass=yes&source=youtube&expire=1324064251&key=yt1&ipbits=8&cp=U0hRSVBRUl9KS0NOMV9IS1ZDOkUyMmt6ZGlseFNk&id=de7a740ccc572b33
00:00:17.011   0.055   518   (19647)   GET   304   text/css   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/cssbin/www-player-vflNqr0jJ.css
00:00:17.013   0.054   527   (56020)   GET   304   text/css   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/cssbin/www-refresh-datauri-vflJkAFPr.css
00:00:17.021   0.105   1096   115   GET   204   text/html   http://o-o.preferred.arn06s03.v5.lscache2.c.youtube.com/generate_204?sparams=id%2Cexpire%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Csource%2Cratebypass%2Ccp&fexp=904549%2C913513%2C904442%2C913601&itag=43&ip=77.0.0.0&signature=ADB26BA1FF89B35AFFBEFEFF1EBA851DBE94FD09.BCD9D34266FCAB982C4E0F1DF06A11315C6CB2AA&sver=3&ratebypass=yes&source=youtube&expire=1324064251&key=yt1&ipbits=8&cp=U0hRSVBRUl9KS0NOMV9IS1ZDOkUyMmt6ZGlseFNk&id=de7a740ccc572b33
00:00:17.025   0.044   1144   115   GET   204   text/html   http://o-o.preferred.arn06s03.v9.lscache6.c.youtube.com/generate_204?sparams=id%2Cexpire%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Csource%2Calgorithm%2Cburst%2Cfactor%2Ccp&fexp=904549%2C913513%2C904442%2C913601&algorithm=throttle-factor&itag=34&ip=77.0.0.0&burst=40&sver=3&signature=4CAB89A3E4168A6D60FE134EE649A0227E2AD1B0.A606B94653B134A5396DD9F4AF25746D34EBA099&source=youtube&expire=1324064251&key=yt1&ipbits=8&factor=1.25&cp=U0hRSVBRUl9KS0NOMV9IS1ZDOkUyMmt6ZGlseFNk&id=de7a740ccc572b33
00:00:17.034   0.089   499   (78591)   GET   304   application/x-javascript   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/jsbin/www-core-vflhGADTg.js
00:00:17.036   0.088   513   (90569)   GET   304   application/x-javascript   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/jsbin/www-player_core_module-vfllt3h2e.js
00:00:17.153   1.225   525   (161)   GET   (Aborted)   image/gif (NS_BINDING_ABORTED)   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/img/pixel-vfl3z5WfW.gif
00:00:17.199   0.902   447   2335   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/kdD52DAaFRs/default.jpg
00:00:17.201   0.837   447   3176   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/GXLjVK-WcRY/default.jpg
00:00:17.204   0.957   447   2032   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/Od66bhNzBtE/default.jpg
00:00:17.374   1.019   518   (36173)   GET   (Aborted)   image/png (NS_BINDING_ABORTED)   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/imgbin/www-refresh-vflj8-2O7.png
00:00:17.636   0.758   512   (9497)   GET   (Aborted)   image/png (NS_BINDING_ABORTED)   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/imgbin/player-common-vfl6Awq62.png
00:00:17.641   0.861   510   (9287)   GET   (Aborted)   image/png (NS_BINDING_ABORTED)   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/imgbin/player-dark-vflEKkI3e.png
00:00:17.777   0.602   764   698   GET   200   text/xml   http://www.youtube.com/annotations/read2?video_id=3np0DMxXKzM
00:00:17.787   0.226   1177   28.8M   GET   206   video/webm   http://o-o.preferred.arn06s03.v5.lscache2.c.youtube.com/videoplayback?sparams=id%2Cexpire%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Csource%2Cratebypass%2Ccp&fexp=904549%2C913513%2C904442%2C913601&itag=43&ip=77.0.0.0&signature=ADB26BA1FF89B35AFFBEFEFF1EBA851DBE94FD09.BCD9D34266FCAB982C4E0F1DF06A11315C6CB2AA&sver=3&ratebypass=yes&source=youtube&expire=1324064251&key=yt1&ipbits=8&cp=U0hRSVBRUl9KS0NOMV9IS1ZDOkUyMmt6ZGlseFNk&id=de7a740ccc572b33
00:00:18.246   0.379   828   244   GET   204   text/html   http://s.youtube.com/stream_204?ns=yt&html5=1&el=detailpage&fexp=904549%2C913513%2C904442%2C913601&event=streamingerror&ec=301&rt=0.478&fmt=43&plid=AAS0NgFGNef26bSd&volume=100&mos=0
00:00:18.687   0.287   592   180   GET   204   image/gif   http://csi.gstatic.com/csi?v=2&s=youtube&action=html5_watch&e=904549,913513,904442,913601&an=&li=0&docid=3np0DMxXKzM&plid=AAS0NgFGNef26bSd&wgl=1&fmt=43&tds=21&rt=ct.126,bf.138,fs.533,gv.991,fvb.1638,plev.1666,aft.1666
00:00:18.693   0.166   1122   295   GET   204   text/html   http://s.youtube.com/s?html5=1&ns=yt&el=detailpage&hl=en_US&cr=US&docid=3np0DMxXKzM&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.informaction.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D7%26t%3D7800&plid=AAS0NgFGNef26bSd&fmt=43&fs=0&screenw=1280&screenh=1024&w=638&h=360&vw=638&vh=360&playerw=640&playerh=390&vid=LdVCkPHlPapcIYqG2Vf6rKpYvMPEMYa5C&rt=0.925&feature=topvideos_music&playback=1&len=260.08&fexp=904549%2C913513%2C904442%2C913601&hmempf=23&hmemdf=23&hmempresented=11&hmempainted=5&st=0.372&et=0.372
00:00:19.086   0.153   447   2077   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/AscPOozwYA8/default.jpg
00:00:19.090   0.154   447   3805   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/L-JQ1q-13Ek/default.jpg
00:00:19.093   0.156   447   2350   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/wRazxFz9j-M/default.jpg
00:00:19.097   0.155   447   5043   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/2-WICd9G6es/default.jpg
00:00:19.101   0.168   447   4878   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/WbjoxasV5es/default.jpg
00:00:19.105   0.159   447   3879   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/C-PNun-Pfb4/default.jpg
00:00:19.108   0.303   447   2048   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/wNNTcHq5Tzk/default.jpg
00:00:19.112   0.146   447   3930   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/dTCNwgzM2rQ/default.jpg
00:00:19.117   0.117   391   (22477)   GET   (Cache)   application/x-javascript   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/jsbin/www-searchbox-vfl9OT488.js
00:00:19.577   0.315   521   115   GET   204   text/html   http://clients1.google.com/generate_204
00:00:28.695   0.091   1124   295   GET   204   text/html   http://s.youtube.com/s?html5=1&ns=yt&el=detailpage&hl=en_US&cr=US&docid=3np0DMxXKzM&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.informaction.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D7%26t%3D7800&plid=AAS0NgFGNef26bSd&fmt=43&fs=0&screenw=1280&screenh=1024&w=638&h=360&vw=638&vh=360&playerw=640&playerh=390&vid=LdVCkPHlPapcIYqG2Vf6rKpYvMPEMYa5C&rt=10.925&feature=topvideos_music&vtmp=1&len=260.08&fexp=904549%2C913513%2C904442%2C913601&hmempf=273&hmemdf=273&hmempresented=261&hmempainted=56&st=0.372&et=10.482
00:00:38.688   0.087   1125   295   GET   204   text/html   http://s.youtube.com/s?html5=1&ns=yt&el=detailpage&hl=en_US&cr=US&docid=3np0DMxXKzM&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.informaction.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D7%26t%3D7800&plid=AAS0NgFGNef26bSd&fmt=43&fs=0&screenw=1280&screenh=1024&w=638&h=360&vw=638&vh=360&playerw=640&playerh=390&vid=LdVCkPHlPapcIYqG2Vf6rKpYvMPEMYa5C&rt=20.919&feature=topvideos_music&vtmp=1&len=260.08&fexp=904549%2C913513%2C904442%2C913601&hmempf=523&hmemdf=523&hmempresented=511&hmempainted=56&st=10.482&et=20.432
00:00:48.681   0.094   1125   295   GET   204   text/html   http://s.youtube.com/s?html5=1&ns=yt&el=detailpage&hl=en_US&cr=US&docid=3np0DMxXKzM&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.informaction.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D7%26t%3D7800&plid=AAS0NgFGNef26bSd&fmt=43&fs=0&screenw=1280&screenh=1024&w=638&h=360&vw=638&vh=360&playerw=640&playerh=390&vid=LdVCkPHlPapcIYqG2Vf6rKpYvMPEMYa5C&rt=30.913&feature=topvideos_music&vtmp=1&len=260.08&fexp=904549%2C913513%2C904442%2C913601&hmempf=773&hmemdf=773&hmempresented=761&hmempainted=56&st=20.432&et=30.451
Cookies not allowed

Code: Select all

00:00:23.880   0.451   486   15778   GET   200   text/html   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3np0DMxXKzM&feature=topvideos_music&html5=True
00:00:23.887   0.094   1085   28.8M   GET   206   video/webm (undefined)   http://o-o.preferred.arn06s03.v5.lscache2.c.youtube.com/videoplayback?sparams=id%2Cexpire%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Csource%2Cratebypass%2Ccp&fexp=901026%2C901802&itag=43&ip=77.0.0.0&signature=2DC031CF0C0E3018536EFC1E5D4E149C9C2CC760.19BF46A91528D80A3F61AF97171AE4E1F420081F&sver=3&ratebypass=yes&source=youtube&expire=1324064251&key=yt1&ipbits=8&cp=U0hRSVBRUl9KS0NOMV9IS1ZDOnFDUEdGUk4yVnJY&id=de7a740ccc572b33
00:00:24.309   0.069   518   (19647)   GET   304   text/css   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/cssbin/www-player-vflNqr0jJ.css
00:00:24.311   0.069   527   (56020)   GET   304   text/css   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/cssbin/www-refresh-datauri-vflJkAFPr.css
00:00:24.320   0.119   1070   115   GET   204   text/html   http://o-o.preferred.arn06s03.v5.lscache2.c.youtube.com/generate_204?sparams=id%2Cexpire%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Csource%2Cratebypass%2Ccp&fexp=904532%2C914061%2C901700%2C900221&itag=43&ip=77.0.0.0&signature=304DACEB16B62EE5C94F0E96F348DCBDEDB73C49.96E5A7D763BE29078565E72078388BE34EE936BD&sver=3&ratebypass=yes&source=youtube&expire=1324064251&key=yt1&ipbits=8&cp=U0hRSVBRUl9KS0NOMV9IS1ZDOklYMU5TSnBpSWRw&id=de7a740ccc572b33
00:00:24.325   0.111   1070   115   GET   204   text/html   http://o-o.preferred.arn06s03.v9.lscache6.c.youtube.com/generate_204?sparams=id%2Cexpire%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Csource%2Cratebypass%2Ccp&fexp=904532%2C914061%2C901700%2C900221&itag=34&ip=77.0.0.0&signature=1D8480168B4D2AFF4A51CE2B37ACBF5E81B766CD.3B9717B3E9FA04ED3C1419D8BA290AAEF8ACC2A7&sver=3&ratebypass=yes&source=youtube&expire=1324064251&key=yt1&ipbits=8&cp=U0hRSVBRUl9KS0NOMV9IS1ZDOklYMU5TSnBpSWRw&id=de7a740ccc572b33
00:00:24.361   0.084   499   (78591)   GET   304   application/x-javascript   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/jsbin/www-core-vflhGADTg.js
00:00:24.364   0.083   513   (90569)   GET   304   application/x-javascript   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/jsbin/www-player_core_module-vfllt3h2e.js
00:00:24.478   1.111   525   (161)   GET   (Aborted)   image/gif (NS_BINDING_ABORTED)   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/img/pixel-vfl3z5WfW.gif
00:00:24.528   0.767   447   2335   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/kdD52DAaFRs/default.jpg
00:00:24.533   0.823   447   3176   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/GXLjVK-WcRY/default.jpg
00:00:24.537   0.879   447   2032   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/Od66bhNzBtE/default.jpg
00:00:24.710   0.890   518   (36173)   GET   (Aborted)   image/png (NS_BINDING_ABORTED)   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/imgbin/www-refresh-vflj8-2O7.png
00:00:24.959   0.642   512   (9497)   GET   (Aborted)   image/png (NS_BINDING_ABORTED)   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/imgbin/player-common-vfl6Awq62.png
00:00:24.963   0.707   510   (9287)   GET   (Aborted)   image/png (NS_BINDING_ABORTED)   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/imgbin/player-dark-vflEKkI3e.png
00:00:25.087   0.502   492   698   GET   200   text/xml   http://www.youtube.com/annotations/read2?video_id=3np0DMxXKzM
00:00:25.264   0.421   828   244   GET   204   text/html   http://s.youtube.com/stream_204?ns=yt&html5=1&el=detailpage&fexp=904532%2C914061%2C901700%2C900221&event=streamingerror&ec=203&rt=0.182&fmt=43&plid=AAS0NfuhHt4xPptI&volume=100&mos=0
00:00:25.498   0.198   828   244   GET   204   text/html   http://s.youtube.com/stream_204?ns=yt&html5=1&el=detailpage&fexp=904532%2C914061%2C901700%2C900221&event=streamingerror&ec=301&rt=0.416&fmt=43&plid=AAS0NfuhHt4xPptI&volume=100&mos=0
00:00:25.799   0.107   447   2077   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/AscPOozwYA8/default.jpg
00:00:25.803   0.184   447   3789   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/L-JQ1q-13Ek/default.jpg
00:00:25.806   0.081   447   2350   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/wRazxFz9j-M/default.jpg
00:00:25.809   0.265   447   5027   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/2-WICd9G6es/default.jpg
00:00:25.813   0.078   447   4878   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/WbjoxasV5es/default.jpg
00:00:25.816   0.079   447   3879   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/C-PNun-Pfb4/default.jpg
00:00:25.819   0.175   421   3905   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/4zLfCnGVeL4/default.jpg
00:00:25.823   0.079   447   2048   GET   200   image/jpeg   http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/wNNTcHq5Tzk/default.jpg
00:00:25.827   0.052   391   (22477)   GET   (Cache)   application/x-javascript   http://s.ytimg.com/yt/jsbin/www-searchbox-vfl9OT488.js
00:00:26.075   0.208   521   115   GET   204   text/html   http://clients1.google.com/generate_204

Re: Problem with YouTube videos if cookies are disabled

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:23 pm
by Tom T.
@ Ian: No problem in posting. Using code tags should prevent the large number of URLs/links from tripping the spam filter. There is probably a length limit for any one message by a user; I don't know what it is (and probably wouldn't be allowed to say, to prevent trolls from posting right under that limit :evil: )

I'll let Giorgio know of the new information. Thanks for all the trouble you've gone to, to help get to the source of this head-scratcher.
Image

Re: Problem with YouTube videos if cookies are disabled

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:38 pm
by Ian
Thank you for assistance.
P.S. Bug occurs in the case of access to the YT through SSL too. (for this test I used the HTTPS Everywhere ext).

Re: Problem with YouTube videos if cookies are disabled

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:54 pm
by Tom T.
@ Ian: I've just installed Fx 9.0b6, into a temporary sandbox.
Poor man's VM -- it's still reading the existing install of Windows, but all else is fresh -- browser, NS.

Disabled geo.
Removed search engines and auto-suggest (privacy issues Image)
Changed home page to blank.
Disabled *all* cookies and history. Checked "Do not track", as though that actually does any good. ;)

Installed NS 2.2.4rc3.
Checked all Embeddings page.
Trivial appearance changes: don't show "Globally allow".
Deleted most of whitelist, including all YouTube-related.
Checked all Advanced > Untrusted, except for "Hide <noscript> elements".
Removed exceptions to XSS filtering. Image

Browsed to YT. Searched for a video, which came up despite their red warning that search wouldn't work without JS. :P
Placeholder appeared.
Clicked it.
Got confirmation prompt.
Clicked OK.

Video played.

Image Image Image Image Image

Still totally clueless.

Unless Giorgio comes up with something, I may study the various videos when there's time. Admit I haven't, because I never doubted that the issue existed for *some*. But maybe there's a clue in there. Need to leave now -- cheers until the next time.

Re: Problem with YouTube videos if cookies are disabled

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:34 pm
by Ian
Tom T, When you search video on Youtube.com -> Search ->(for example): Paul Simon - The Sound of Silence 9/11 Ground Zero -> You go to url http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3np0DMxXKzM - It`s a flash video, and it works normally with disabled cookies.

But if you go to this video by therube`s link you go to url http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3np0DMxX ... html5=True - it`s not a flash video, it`s a HTML5 ogg/VP8, and it`s not works with disabled cookies.
In the first post I wrote that the bug occurs if the video type is not flash. Flash videos works normally with disabled cookies.

I understand you correctly, in your case normally works HTML5 video ?
If not difficult, please compare these two links. both works ?

Re: Problem with YouTube videos if cookies are disabled

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:23 pm
by Giorgio Maone
Looks like the problem is Youtube inserting an unique identifier in movies URL.
This appears to be the same throughout the session if you're allowing cookies, but to change with each request if cookies are disabled (probably because the server has no way to keep track of it).
Therefore, once you click the placeholder and the page reloads (HTML 5 movies trigger a page reload to allow scripts in the page to build an user interface around them) you get a brand new URL, which is not recognized as allowed yet.

Example:

  1. Code: Select all

    http://o-o.preferred.mil01s10.v5.lscache2.c.youtube.com/videoplayback?sparams=id%2Cexpire%2Cip%2Cipb
its%2Citag%2Csource%2Cratebypass%2Ccp&fexp=906918%2C913602&itag=43&ip=94.0.0.0&signature=8A29F6A0874
53E786C8507453B9E358C56D40BC1.98064C95297A73BCCB05C88E1390BED03F2CCDC5&sver=3&ratebypass=yes&source=
youtube&expire=1324183051&key=yt1&ipbits=8&cp=U0hRSVFTUV9KS0NOMV9JTVVBOlZzTHFfM2xXMks3&id=de7a740ccc
572b33

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    http://o-o.preferred.mil01s10.v5.lscache2.c.youtube.com/videoplayback?sparams=id%2Cexpire%2Cip%2Cipb
its%2Citag%2Csource%2Cratebypass%2Ccp&fexp=906020%2C913601&itag=43&ip=94.0.0.0&signature=BA1F53A1637
2EC31DF28370988D64E63BE39EA1F.33A111EB2B03F0A1B52EB57C9332BEB873BEB1FB&sver=3&ratebypass=yes&source=
youtube&expire=1324183051&key=yt1&ipbits=8&cp=U0hRSVFTUV9KS0NOMV9JTVVBOmRKMno4ZllRVDFC&id=de7a740ccc
572b33
Work-around: use the "Blocked Objects" menu and select Allow video/ogg@http://o-o.preferred.mil01s10.v5.lscache2.c.youtube.com

Re: Problem with YouTube videos if cookies are disabled

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:52 am
by Ian
Thanks for reply.
Giorgio Maone wrote:Looks like the problem is Youtube inserting an unique identifier in movies URL.
This appears to be the same throughout the session if you're allowing cookies, but to change with each request if cookies are disabled (probably because the server has no way to keep track of it).
Therefore, once you click the placeholder and the page reloads (HTML 5 movies trigger a page reload to allow scripts in the page to build an user interface around them) you get a brand new URL, which is not recognized as allowed yet.
I confirm it.
I use Wireshark to check it (with blocked cookies), Indeed is the case ; each page request/reload (with manually unblocking blocked objects),generates new url. With allowed cookies each page request/reload generates the same url .
Giorgio Maone wrote: Work-around: use the "Blocked Objects" menu and select Allow video/ogg@http://o-o.preferred.mil01s10.v5.lscache2.c.youtube.com
Yes, I know that the manual unblocking allows video playback.

If i correctly understand your post, this problem is caused by YT ,& it`s not NS bug ?
If it is not NS bug,then I apologize for the erroneous bug report.

Re: Problem with YouTube videos if cookies are disabled

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:05 am
by Giorgio Maone
Ian wrote: If i correctly understand your post, this problem is caused by YT ,& it`s not NS bug ?
Exactly.
NoScript users choose long ago for the convenience of allowing movies one-by-one (click to play) on sites, like Youtube, where even if the actual Flash object is always the same (i.e. the movie player) the actual content (the video stream) can be identified by differences in the URL parameters.
Therefore if Youtube generates different URLs for the same movie (even though in very specific and unusual circumstances, like user actively disabling cookies) NoScript treats them as different objects.

BTW, I can see no compelling reason for outright disabling cookies on any site, provided that you allow them for session only and keep 3rd party disabled. This way you limit their tracking potential to the originator site only, and the traces go away every time you restart the browser, but you don't break any state-keeping functionality.

Re: Problem with YouTube videos if cookies are disabled

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:40 am
by Ian
Giorgio Maone wrote: Exactly.
NoScript users choose long ago for the convenience of allowing movies one-by-one (click to play) on sites, like Youtube, where even if the actual Flash object is always the same (i.e. the movie player) the actual content (the video stream) can be identified by differences in the URL parameters.
Therefore if Youtube generates different URLs for the same movie (even though in very specific and unusual circumstances, like user actively disabling cookies) NoScript treats them as different objects.
Now I understand the situation.
Giorgio Maone wrote: BTW, I can see no compelling reason for outright disabling cookies on any site, provided that you allow them for session only and keep 3rd party disabled. This way you limit their tracking potential to the originator site only, and the traces go away every time you restart the browser, but you don't break any state-keeping functionality.
For sites, which I do not trust, but which require cookies, I always set cookie permissions to `allowed for session`(I use CookieMonster for easy cookies management).

For me question is exhausted.
Thanks all for help.

Re: Problem with YouTube videos if cookies are disabled

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:24 am
by Tom T.
Giorgio Maone wrote:Work-around: use the "Blocked Objects" menu and select Allow video/ogg@http://o-o.preferred.mil01s10.v5.lscache2.c.youtube.com
Another work-around: Use Fx 3.6.x, which doesn't experience this issue. ;) As therube and I surmised, there is a graceful fallback to Flash.

@ Giorgio: Is there any way to disable HTML5 support in Fx > 3, without breaking the whole browser? (i. e., keep HTML4 functionality)
Giorgio Maone wrote:BTW, I can see no compelling reason for outright disabling cookies on any site, provided that you allow them for session only and keep 3rd party disabled. This way you limit their tracking potential to the originator site only, and the traces go away every time you restart the browser, but you don't break any state-keeping functionality.
This is pretty much my own policy, except that if a site will work OK without the cookie, why allow it? (Rhetorical -- Principle of Least Privilege)

Also, many users don't restart the browser for a long time, and keep double-digit number of tabs running. *If all is enforced properly*, no evil should happen, but as you said at another thread, incompetence is the rule these days. :evil:

This is just my tinfoil-hat speaking. Image
Thanks much for coming to our rescue. :D

@ Ian: Whew! Will mark as Resolved. Thanks for all the logs, etc. to enable Giorgio to pick this apart.

For humorous relief: If you go there by therube's link,

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3np0DMxXKzM&feature=topvideos_music&html5=True
try changing the True to False before hitting Enter:

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3np0DMxXKzM&feature=topvideos_music&html5=False
or just truncate everything after the video ID#, which didn't change from the Flash version to the HTML5 version, apparently.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3np0DMxXKzM&feature=topvideos_music&html5=True

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3np0DMxXKzM
At the moment, I'm back on the browser that works :P , but you might have some fun playing around with those ideas.
Cheers,
Tom.

Re: [RESOLVED] Problem with YouTube videos if cookies disabl

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:56 pm
by ConfirmedUbuntu
It's clear from Giorgio's explanation that most novice users would have cookies enabled, so I can see that this is a real edge case indeed, and one that advanced users can workaround easily.
Never have seen any problem with browser cookies per session myself. Why cut off one's nose to spite one's face?

On looking at their blurb on the new rendering, it does seem as if HTML5 is very much still a beta service at youtube. After all, IE still rules the waves, so I guess 4.01 will be the default for a few years yet. They've tried to make access straightforward for users by providing a "reverse" fallback environment for those who want HTML5 default... the catch is that a user has to register for that default and so they have cookies enabled and don't experience what Ian found with placeholders. The search for videos is fairly skewed by the beta enrolment, I found on my small trial. I wonder what that does for an apple device user's experience of the site?
I guess we non-IE, but also non-apple gadget users tend to forget that IE without extensions is still default on most users' machines. And conservatives of the Firefox Community, such as Tom T, are also very much part of the landscape, no offense at all intended to conservatives.
Some poor apple device users left traces on the web of their inability of getting html5 youtube to work until they'd been coached on how to flush their cookies - so they'd be a sub-case of novice users I suppose ;-)

Tom T, you may like to preview the youtube.com/html5 page for other ways to force non-flash videos next time you venture into this new decade of browsers ;-)
Please, don't trouble to answer, that's just a heads up if you haven't found the page yet. I'll be no longer monitoring the thread now it's resolved :-)

Re: Problem with YouTube videos if cookies are disabled

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:08 pm
by Guest
Giorgio Maone wrote:and the traces go away every time you restart the browser, but you don't break any state-keeping functionality.
Eh, who restarts their browser nowadays?

But seriously, while I see the value of distinguishing between what is saved/active/etc only in a session and what now, the concept of sessions themselves seems to blur and made begin to seem a little arbitrary (after all it's not clear what a session means to the user, users might perceive sessions differently now that there are features like session restore, sync, hibernate, ...).
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