InformAction Forums

Still confirming the strange behaviour, same settings as in my post upthread, but with the latest development version as at 10 minutes ago.
youtube and ytimg both must be allowed for this system to play most videos at youtube, as in this case - where if either is not allowed, then no placeholder shows. But that's a side issue I suppose. Whatever a user needs to allow to get the placeholder, it seems that both Ian and myself are able to reproduce what happens after a placeholder shows up.
I think that tlu has an extension to handle cookies, which may be clouding the issue.
I have tested with a clean new profile and with only NS installed. The only difference between my settings and Ian's is that I have globally allowed and blocked cookies, not individually blocked youtube. Just for the general case test.
Any number of mouse clicks on the placeholder produce a refresh with the same placeholder.
The video can be played by using the NS Blocked Objects menu.

This version of Firefox is sourced from the official Mozilla ppa at launchpad. It is currently maintained and up to date.

Confirmed in XP SP3
The UA is Fx 8.0 - and the about dialog says it's on the release channel, so I don't know the difference between 8.0 and 8.0.1 - haven't bothered with version numbers since the new improved versioning - I just let the auto updating run to supply the latest release per mozilla.

A few more interesting behaviours additional...all tested using a clean new profile with all default NS and Fx prefs except:
block embeddings for trusted sites in NS
globally block cookies in Fx

Can unblock the ogg video in the example provided by therube by choosing any of the objects *under* the top line in the blocked objects menu, but choosing the top line object has the same repeated reload of the placeholder - so that makes the top object a real phantom.
Further, once the ogg video has been released and is playing - it can't be re-blocked by choosing "revoke temp permissions" from the NS menu. *But* if you then choose Temp Allow all this page, then choose "revoke..." the ogg video is again replaced by a placeholder.
It certainly looks buggy from this perspective.

And latest development version of NS 2.2.4rc3 is the test version I used.

Now I checked on VM. WinXP SP3, clean install, only updates installed. Fx 8.0.1. NS 2.2.4rc3.
Same result. If anyone is interested - video: http://www.mediafire.com/?tjdh5yav53750p9

Nice vid, Ian.
You may also want to demonstrate what I've demonstrated - the central claim that setting Firefox to block cookies, globally or just from youtube, produces the bug.
So can you produce the bug with just the default settings in NS? Same as I did?

By default NS, I mean the defaul embeddings checks, not the extras you added, but of course with blocking applied to trusted sites.

ConfirmedUbuntu wrote:Nice vid, Ian.
You may also want to demonstrate what I've demonstrated - the central claim that setting Firefox to block cookies, globally or just from youtube, produces the bug.
So can you produce the bug with just the default settings in NS? Same as I did?

I confirm - not necessarily check additional options,sufficiently enable only one - `apply these restrictions` & bug is produced.
Also i checked with different cookies restrictions (and enabled/disabled youtube-nocookie.com), it does not matter,cookies blocked globally or only for YT - bug occurs - http://www.mediafire.com/?kwd1j88l6u9ca89.

Ian wrote: Maybe need to reinstall browser or reinstall OS ?

Sounds a bit drastic. Quicker ideas to follow.

Ian wrote:I will check on VM, clean OS without any other apps.

OK, but I was going to suggest just making a clean profile from scratch. Install *only* NoScript, no other add-ons, default settings.

If the problem disappears, then something in your profile was corrupt, or you have an extension conflict. Standard Diagnostic will help to pinpoint it.

If the problem still occurs, then it gets a bit messier. But first, see if the above works.

@ ConfirmedUbuntu, Ian and XPSP3: OK, I set Firefox to globally disallow cookies (after getting one here, so I could log in as myself).
All scripting blocked from the YT site. Fx 8.01, NS 2.2.4rc3.

Click placeholder (confirm), = success.

The only way I could break the site was with RequestPolicy, disallowing requests from YT to ytimg.com. But that breaks the entire page -- makes it turn white, no images -- clearly, ytimg stores all of the static images, style, etc. for the page. Which doesn't seem relevant to this issue.

I think I had better ask Giorgio if he has any ideas that can account for the fact that I, my fellow Moderator GµårÐïåñ, and tlu, a well-respected user who's been around here for a couple of years, cannot reproduce that, while three other users can. If a clean profile and fresh install of NS -- or a completely fresh OS in a VM,, with fresh Fx and NS -- still experience the problem, I'm out of ideas. (icon for "head-scratching" needed -- anybody have one?)

All due respect Tom T, but the new profile is a subset of a fresh install hence unnecessary in Ian's case - his videos show all steps have been taken.
I'd suggest that Ian has already exhaustively demonstrated the bug, whereas in your cited 3 cases of not being able to demonstrate it none has stated they've used a fresh profile with only NS.
Your assistance would be most welcome if you yourself could run a fresh profile with only NS, only the settings described by Ian, to prove the bug. Prove is in the scientific sense of course.
I also note that moderator therube has demonstrated the bug. I assert that the central factor getting investigated is cookies permissions and their effect on the release of the NS placeholder, not whatever sites are requesting whatever.

For greater certainty, I now checked on another machine. All settings & conditions are the same , but another OS & Browser language/locale settings.
No changes - bug still produced.
Could it be that the bug depends on user`s IP range/(geo)location data ?

No, I don't think so.
So long as (throughout this thread) the premise as set forth by the OP has not changed, then I confirmed it early on.

ConfirmedUbuntu wrote:All due respect Tom T, but the new profile is a subset of a fresh install hence unnecessary in Ian's case - his videos show all steps have been taken.

Unfortunately, the way the e-mail notification system works, the first one took me to the reply immediately after my last post, or something like that. Hence the reply. Didn't even notice that there was a third page started. Hence the second post. No offense is taken; when threads get this long and convoluted, sometimes interim replies get missed.

I agree regarding the Venn analysis. I also would ask you: If the bug isn't there on an existing install with a number of other add-ons, by what mechanism could a fresh profile and fresh install suddenly create the bug? Are you asserting that one or more of my other add-ons fixes the bug, or that my profile is so corrupt that the site works? (need a tongue-in-cheek icon -- facetious, please don't take offense. But it's an interesting question. Got any ideas?)

I also note that moderator therube has demonstrated the bug. I assert that the central factor getting investigated is cookies permissions and their effect on the release of the NS placeholder, not whatever sites are requesting whatever.

Which is why I've asked Giorgio to eyeball this. I wasn't doubting anyone - I said almost those exact words to Ian -- just stating that I had no further ideas as to why some have the issue, and others, even on very similar platforms, don't. That's a statement of being puzzled, not of doubting, and shouldn't have been taken as argumentative. If anyone did so, please revise that opinion accordingly, thanks.

Your assistance would be most welcome if you yourself could run a fresh profile with only NS, only the settings described by Ian

I've spent a lot of time on this already, after long days of trying to make a living in the Real World, which continues to be an increasing struggle in the global recession, but I suppose it shouldn't take more that a few minutes to do that. Back shortly. (and hoping Giorgio shows up and waves his magic wand in the meantime)

[rant] Forgot what a PITA Fx 4+ is OOB. Default to Google home page, meaning this browser has already been geolocated, thanks -- before I could even get to NS.
And no NS icon visible -- all the time spent that had been spent customizing the working copy, getting rid of MZ default garbage, etc. Well, in the name of science... [/rant}

I have some really bad news for you guys. Fresh install of Fx 8.01 itself, disabled the cookies, fresh install of NS at default settings, YT vid played *immediately* -- as the default NS intends, for the benefit of novices.

But after checking all Embeddings page, esp. "Apply to w/l sites", restarting, back to YT, searched for a video, saw the placeholder, clicked it ......
............................................................................ it played instantly.

As said before, that's all I can do. It does not reproduce on a brand new install of Fx 8.01 with cookies blocked, and a fresh install of NS 2.2.4rc3 with all Embeddings checked -- at least, on my planet.

No offense intended. I've escalated it, which is what support techs are supposed to do when they can't even reproduce the issue, much less diagnose it.
Please, all wait for Giorgio to reply, unless you have some *new* information, or a cure.

Tom T. wrote: No offense intended. I've escalated it, which is what support techs are supposed to do when they can't even reproduce the issue, much less diagnose it.
Please, all wait for Giorgio to reply, unless you have some *new* information, or a cure.

I have no important new information, but something that has:
1)Enable/disable ABE = nothing changes
2)Computer behind router /connected directly to Internet = nothing changes
3)IPv6 enabled on computer & router(WAN & LAN sides) /IPv6 disabled on computer & router(WAN & LAN sides) = nothing changes
4)Fx connected through proxy, exit IP - US /Without proxy = nothing changes. (not sure about the accuracy of this test, proxy can modify HTTP headers or something else)
5)After installing Fx I always disable geolocation (geo.enabled = false),in all the above tests, I did not change this setting (default geo.enabled = true)
probably does not affect the problem, because that is the first time I encountered bug with disabled geolocation.

Of course, before each test Fx profile has been cleared by removing profile folders.
Do not know what else I can check. I have no new ideas.
Upd. Can`t post HTTP logs (1-st log - cookies enabled, 2-nd log - cookies disabled) using `code`tags , spam filter block it.
Upd2. With Fx 9.0b6 en-US (Signing time Tuesday, December 13, 2011 8:21:01 PM ,File Hash SHA1 19C44C4E35F16DA7D5AA07FBE7552F2F88DC75A6)
bug still produced.