InformAction Forums

@Mas:
I'm happy you finally found the cause, which BTW was already indirectly suggested by the first reporter (who stated he did not "have the .net microsoft addon") and discussed in two other forum topics at least, plus this post.

However, I find this statement of yours quite bizarre:

Mas wrote:All those "Standard Diagnostic" and "Unable to install themes or extensions" steps, at least half of which I did before giving up on NS, weren't any help in debugging this.

Did you actually read what Standard Diagnostic was about?
It is a binary search for a conflicting extension, and it's actually the fastest path to diagnose this very kind of problem, other than random guessing and being very lucky.
If you did Standard Diagnostic in first place, you would have found the .NET Framework Assistant as the culprit in 10 minutes max.

One thing that confused me at first with the latest version of the .NET software is it is no longer listed on the extensions tab but is now listed on the plugins tab. While I never experienced the problems concerning Noscript reported in this thread, I did at first think that the MS .NET software wasn't enable (because it wasn't in the extensions list) but later discovered it was enabled when I looked in the plugin list.

Giorgio Maone wrote:@Mas:
I'm happy you finally found the cause, which BTW was already indirectly suggested by the first reporter (who stated he did not "have the .net microsoft addon")

Did you actually read what Standard Diagnostic was about?
It is a binary search for a conflicting extension, and it's actually the fastest path to diagnose this very kind of problem, other than random guessing and being very lucky.
If you did Standard Diagnostic in first place, you would have found the .NET Framework Assistant as the culprit in 10 minutes max.

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with you.

In the case of the NET Framework, although those posts mentioned "problems" it didn't indicate any problem with the NS icon not appearing *with* that .NET framework installed (just the opposite in this post--implied they were unrelated). It was, and would have been, a random guess to link those. It's a huge stretch to tie in *any* mention of generic problems with another program (I'm sure a search would find many--anti-virus, firewall, random) to this icon issue.

Yes, I read and followed many of the "Standard Diagnostic" steps before giving up on this debug "method" (far more "shotgun" than "binary search"). I don't see a single thing in that list that would have lead me to look at the .NET Framework, or any other. Windows Update (nothing in the FF Extensions or PlugIn tab). It did include my favorite "maybe it's a virus or malware" list at the end.

Also, I find it interesting that the issue is apparently viewed as "solved" now that this Windows update is removed and the NS icon is back. For whatever reason, Microsoft lists this as an "important update." I think this says that Firefox and/or NoScript should be fixed to work *with* this update installed (a "symptom," not a "cause") rather than just removing the update.

Guest wrote:Also, I find it interesting that the issue is apparently viewed as "solved" now that this Windows update is removed and the NS icon is back. For whatever reason, Microsoft lists this as an "important update." I think this says that Firefox and/or NoScript should be fixed to work *with* this update installed (a "symptom," not a "cause") rather than just removing the update.

If you read those posts, you'd find that the Microsoft Update did sneakily install a very controversial and buggy Firefox Add-On called .NET Framework Assistant, causing the same trouble to many other extensions, including ABP, which place their UI in the status bar.
Therefore the culprit and the flawed software component which needs to be fixed or removed is the Microsoft one, not NoScript or Firefox. Simply put, Microsoft should learn how to write Firefox add-ons or let Firefox alone.

Actually I did read, days ago, about the problem with the "Firefox Add-On called .NET Framework Assistant" that MS had nefariously installed as a Firefox add-in. Which is why that FF add-in had been disabled and then deleted from my FF setup days ago, before I even noticed the missing NS icon. I fully agree that MS has no business installing such a thing (buggy or not) without user permission.

However, the *only* thing I deleted last night was the *Windows Update* "Update for Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 (KB963707)", not any MS plug-in/extension in Firefox since the later was long gone. From a FF/NS perspective, I'm thinking that FF/NS must be using the .NET Framework, which is a different issue than getting clobbered by another (now non-existent) plug-in. Perhaps the "Standard Diagnostics" should refer to this fact, if correct, since just "disabling other FF plug-ins" doesn't cover this.

Mas wrote: I'm thinking that FF/NS must be using the .NET Framework

This is not the case at all. NoScript is entirely written in JavaScript with no external dependencies other than the host browser, and Firefox on Windows is statically compiled against MSVCRT and that's all (no .NET framework, period).

Giorgio Maone wrote: This is not the case at all. NoScript is entirely written in JavaScript with no external dependencies other than the host browser, and Firefox on Windows is statically compiled against MSVCRT and that's all (no .NET framework, period).

That's certainly your territory, not mine (I don't program under Windows). You mention that "Firefox on Windows is statically compiled against MSVCRT" but I also noticed the comment below. Is there no chance that FF uses the runtime MSVCRT (not true if "statically compiled?") with the runtime/execution libs being altered by .NET Framework updates under Windows regardless of a FF plugin?

Since the icon problem happened with both NS (no icon) and ABP (intermittent icon), it would seem to be something more "central" (e.g. FF rather than NS or ABP).

=======================================
What is the .NET Framework?

The .NET Framework is a multi-language component development and execution environment that consists of three main parts:

Common language runtime. Despite its name, the runtime actually has a role in a component’s development time and run time experiences. While the component is running, the runtime is responsible for managing memory allocation, starting up and killing threads and processes, enforcing security policy, as well as satisfying any dependencies that the component may have on other components. At development time, the runtime’s role changes slightly: because it automates so much (e.g., memory management), the runtime makes the developer’s experience very simple, especially when compared to COM today. In particular, features such as reflection dramatically reduce the amount of code a developer must write in order to turn business logic into a reusable component.

Runtimes are nothing new for languages: virtually every programming language has a runtime. Visual Basic is the most obvious runtime (the aptly-named VBRUN), but Visual C++ has one (MSVCRT), as do FoxPro, JScript, SmallTalk, Perl, Python, and Java. The .NET Framework’s critical role, and what really sets it apart, is that it provides a unified environment across all programming languages.

I also just noticed, on another PC, that the ".NET Framework Assistant" plug-in in Firefox 3.5 is automatically disabled during the upgrade as "Not compatible with Firefox 3.5." So that plug-in wouldn't been active on my PC, even if I hadn't disabled it days before, once I did the 3.x=>3.5 upgrade.

Mas wrote:So that plug-in wouldn't been active on my PC

Well, for one, in your Firefox I can see you've got the Microsoft Window Presentation Foundation plugin version 3.5.30729, installed by the .NET Framework itself.
Occam's razor tells me you don't need to search for other phantom dependancies...

Giorgio Maone wrote:

Mas wrote: Well, for one, in your Firefox I can see you've got the Microsoft Window Presentation Foundation plugin version 3.5.30729, installed by the .NET Framework itself.
Occam's razor tells me you don't need to search for other phantom dependancies...

Occam's razor might better tell you, since I also mentioned that "I also just noticed, on another PC, that the ".NET Framework Assistant" plug-in in Firefox 3.5 is automatically disabled," that I might not be posting from the same PC where I reported the NS icon problem.

Indeed that's the case. This XP PC is running FF 3.5 with the WPM FF plugin and the auto-disabled (by FF 3.5) MS .NET Framework Asst 1.0, unlike my other PC where all suspected FF MS extensions and plug-ins had been disabled or deleted (if present) while trying to figure out the NS problem.

Looking at recent MS updates, I see that on this PC the two .NET Framework hotfixes have been installed but the KB963707 update that broke FF & NS on my other PC has not. I think it's interesting that even thought that later update hasn't been installed, the (disabled) MS .NET Framework Asst 1.0 is on this PC (installed by ?? One of the two .NET hotfixes? Other MS update?).

Pending (downloaded but not installed) in Windows update on this PC:

Update to .NET Framework 3.5 Service Pack 1 for the .NET Framework Assistant 1.0 x86 (KB963707)
Date last published: 6/30/2009
Download size: 741 KB
The update to .NET Framework 3.5 Service Pack 1 for the .NET Framework Assistant 1.0 for Firefox addresses several compatibility issues with version 1.0 of the extension.

Giorgio Maone wrote:..l. NoScript is entirely written in JavaScript with no external dependencies other than the host browser, and Firefox on Windows is statically compiled against MSVCRT and that's all (no .NET framework, period).

FWIW, I've never had .NET on this machine (4 years old) and removed it OOB on a machine bought last year. Fx, NS, and everything associated with them have always run well. Backing up Giorgio's statement that Fx/Win is dependent only on MSVCRT, presumably the msvcrt.dll in %windir%\system32, which is v.7.0.2600.2180, from April 2005. Don't even have the updated versions, although there are some other C runtimes in SxS that are a bit newer, like msvcr80.dll from Dec 06. Point being, no .Net, no Fx dependency on .Net, ergo, no possible NS dependency on .Net, though the latter is clearly capable of foobarring the former.

And for the records, I'm still receiving reports about the .NET Framework Assistant breaking other extensions randomly and not being even shown in the add-ons manager because of malformed package descriptors.
Since I've never had it installed I couldn't observe this in 1st person, but I just asked one of these reporters to pass me the malformed descriptors for analysis, if he kept it.

**** NoSript Icon Gone ***

Corrupt extension files

Corrupt extension configuration files can cause problems when trying to install an extension. Deleting these files will make Firefox recreate them (removing any corruption) the next time it starts. You won't lose your extensions or their settings by deleting these files.

1. From the menu at the top of the Firefox windowbar, select FileFirefox and then select the ExitQuit FirefoxQuit menu item.
2. Go to your profile folder.
3. Delete the following files:
* extensions.ini
* extensions.cache
* extensions.rdf
4. Restart Firefox.

Giorgio Maone wrote:...Since I've never had it [[.Net Framework Assistant -- T.T.]] installed I couldn't observe this in 1st person, ...

Wow, and people have called me old-fashioned for not accepting any and every new toy that comes along, esp. from MS. Nice to know I'm in good company on this one, Giorgio.

Deleting the .Net Framework Assistant fixed my issues!
Here's how I did it:
www.ghacks.net/2009/02/09/remove-microsoft-net-framework-assistant-from-firefox/

Thanks for the suggestion, this has been driving me insane!