InformAction Forums

therube wrote:(Older) NoScript.jar is left in profile /chrome/ - haven't restarted yet.

That's not the real problem, since it gets deleted as soon as SeaMonkey restart by the installer (locked files are deleted/removed on browser restart by default).

The problem is that SeaMonkey has no notion of "deregistering (uninstalling) chrome", therefore when noscript.jar gets deleted, it's still referenced by the chrome registry (chrome.rdf, overlays.rdf and stylesheets.rdf).

therube wrote: Restarted.
Well I guess you know the answer. (As I watched the profile /chrome/ version disappear.)

As I said, SeaMonkey deletes it before really starting because it's been instructed by the installer, then...

therube wrote: Then I guess you know what happened next. (The dialog box along with a fubar'd SeaMonkey.)

An that's the tricky part. I wrote an "uninstaller" which edits the 3 files of the chrome registry on the fly, but the problem is that SeaMonkey cannot see it until the browser is restarted, and the funny thing is that SeaMonkey has no notion of "restart". It supports "live" profile management and switching, but just can't restart on the same profile (at a certain point I was tempted to make it "migrate" your profile and start on a new profile, then deleting the copy, but it was too risky).
In the end I decided to do it the clunky but safe way, by forcibly shutting down the browser (after warning the user and setting it offline so you don't risk a NoScript-unprotected encounter), so...

therube wrote: And yes, (another) restart did set things straight.

... as expected

therube wrote: Since I've already been "unexpected", just what does an Uninstall do?
Leaves my settings in prefs.js & in /ABE/, & only installs the program portions, I'll assume?

Yes, it basically does the same dance as above but in the Program directory rather than in the profile one.
Additionally it deletes also noscriptService.js from the components directory, so the component doesn't get registered.

therube wrote: Uninstall did leave noscript.jar in Program /chrome/.

Yes, because it usually cannot be deleted while SeaMonkey is running and NoScript is installed (it's locked by the browser).
However, since there's no registration info left, it doesn't get loaded at all anymore.

In case you missed this or some other parts (as I was likely editing while you were reading/writing) ...

If you had two simultaneous instances of SeaMonkey running when you uninstalled it from one, it looks as if SeaMonkey does remain active in the other - until the second instance is closed & restarted. And vice-versa I suppose.

Yes, that is the case too.

Not understanding the problem but since I don't use SeaMonkey, I am going to let therube take this.

No problem. It is now what it is.
Just making some points that may not be obvious to others who may run across this too.

So I'm thinking this post continuous page reloading in FF2 + 1.9.3.6 can give me a good check on what I now can or can not do as far as NoScript & SeaMonkey are concerned.

So I've got two Profiles open, main & dumy, both with NoScript.

I see the problem mentioned.

In dumy, I uninstall NoScript & restart.
That goes fine.

I load the test site, & confirm it operates as expected.

Figure, good! I've got main open with NoScript still "installed" & active & working. ("Working". It appears to be working & I believe it is, though can't say for certain there are no unforeseen consequences?) And currently dumy with NoScript uninstalled. That worked fine.

So now, I figure I'll reinstall NoScript into dumy. And the install goes fine too.
But on (attempted) restart of dumy I get a somewhat familiar message:

The program must close to allow a previous installation attempt to complete. Please restart.

which states to delete xpicleanup.dat, but it cannot be deleted because it is in use.

What xpiclean.dat is attempting to do is to replace (rename/overwrite if you will) the file noscript.new with (to) noscript.jar, & that fails because the Profile main is still open.

Now both noscript.new & noscript.jar (in this instance) happen to be one in the same (because I'm attempting to reinstall the same version), so if I forcibly "kill" xpicleanup.dat (OpenedFilesView - View opened/locked files in your system <sharing violation issues> using Close selected file handles open), then I can once again open dumy.

Eh! Not clean, but it looks to work.

Just to point out that there is no need of an Uninstall button in Options (as there currently is) in SeaMonkey 2, as SeaMonkey 2 uses the same type of extension (Add-on) Manager as FF.

therube wrote:Just to point out that there is no need of an Uninstall button in Options (as there currently is) in SeaMonkey 2, as SeaMonkey 2 uses the same type of extension (Add-on) Manager as FF.

Thanks for noticing.
There was actually a check, but was buggy (the button is even displayed on Fx ATM).

I saw that too and although redundant, I think its ok to have it there. As a developer, I always like to include an uninstall (outside of the windows uninstall) that will clean up properly and remove things and all of my userbase have ALWAYS been grateful and liked that. In fact there are currently 11 major software companies who release their OWN custom installer/uninstallers based on that model. As long as its not problematic on the interface or cause issues for Giorgio to implement, I welcome it and think its nice.

GµårÐïåñ wrote:I saw that too and although redundant, I think its ok to have it there. As a developer, I always like to include an uninstall (outside of the windows uninstall) that will clean up properly and remove things and all of my userbase have ALWAYS been grateful and liked that. In fact there are currently 11 major software companies who release their OWN custom installer/uninstallers based on that model.

They must be the only 11 besides yourself. Slightly O/T here, but I recently installed sw, didn't like it, uninstalled via Add-Remove Programs, and found about 50 MB of junk left behind, scattered all over, ProgFiles\Common Files, Appdata, system32, Registry entries, etc. Finally decided it would be easier just to restore the system to before it was installed. Usually make a complete disk backup before installing anything new, because this is all too common. Why can't a program's uninstaller remove everything it added?

Sorry to go OT, but pertinent to Guardian's response.

I am sorry about the OT, I figured if Giorgio is replying to it, it has relevance. My bad though and willing to remove my post, I was just adding perspective to why it might be nice to have and what you described is pretty much the reason. Most companies assume to leave behind settings, configs and so on to facilitate reinstall but my thinking is ask the user if they want to keep their setting, if so, leave it if not then make a clean remove and leave nothing behind.

There are three categories of developers (OVERLY SIMPLIFIED for sake of the argument but have many subtle subtypes), some developers have the "developer decides what user needs" mentality and some have the "what would I want if I was the end user" mentality and some have a more balance view of the two, like myself (some things dev knows better - protects the user against themselves, some things as an end user I wouldn't' like it, so why put it on others), so it comes down to the user to find which dev model they want and go with that solution. Unfortunately not always possible in certain categories of apps

Guard, I wasn't criticizing you as OT; you were right, you followed Giorgio's lead. Sorry if you got the impression that I was. It was just that my post was a whine about faulty or incomplete uninstalls, whereas the OP was about an install problem. Agree about those developers. I like the ones who give me *choices*, but provide *safe* defaults for low-tech users. Is that so hard? ("Express Install -- Custom Install" etc.). I'm sure your customers are very pleased.

If I want to reinstall later, what's the big deal if everything from before is gone? One more minute, versus having all kinds of debris accumulating over the years as you add and remove programs? Besides, why do they think I uninstalled? It's cuz I decided I didn't like it, d'oh! .... I wish everyone adopted your approach. Cheers.

Oh no, I didn't take it as direct, you just shed light on a point that I had missed following Giorgio's lead and wanted to acknowledge for the record, it wasn't intentional disregard. I have always gone to GREAT length to ensure that my error trap routines are as comprehensive as possible. This ensures that the app is so dummy proofed that you can't break it no matter how much you try. Although I have seen people figure all kinds of new ways to break it that is 1/billion but I still incorporate the error trap just the same, in case some other lucky bastard beats those odds and repeats it But at that is done for the protection of the user and so they don't lose data and stuff, but I never substitute my judgment for their choices that should be deferred to free will. I do however take liberties like, encrypting settings, files, personal information just in case, even though they don't expect it and don't even know its happening, its a matter of courtesy on my part and feeds off my own needs and paranoia I guess and stuff like that but otherwise, no.

I have had people tell me, I am so glad you prompted me for this and that, I didn't realize there was a customize and had you not asked "just to be sure" I would have installed it this way and been sore about it later. Thanks. I tell them, hey, we are all so used to click next next next and finish that we sometimes develop tunnel vision missing all the important disclaimers and considerations offered to us and then think we got duped. SO I rather be annoying and have you pissed at me for asking again than to have you later accuse me of being inconsiderate and doing something you didn't like. Anyway, sorry for going off topic.

Updated to Kubuntu 9.04 with a clean install and installed Seamonkey as per usual. Ran SM as root to install add-ons sucha s No Script.

Said it was installed so closed browser window and started as normal. No sign of No Script or it doing it's job. Tried as root. Same thing.

The .jar is in my Profile folder and have tried a new Profile to no avail. Have reinstalled SM just in case. No choice in global or profile installation.

Can anyone help?

Kubuntu 9.04, Seamonkey 1.1.16

Can you see any error message in Tools|Error Console?
Could you try installing it as yourself with sudo privileges, rather than root, so NoScript can perform its uninstall routine on your profile?

@uv_goth, what version of NoScript are you installing?

Current <SeaMonkey 1.1.x> versions are installed into the program installation directory, no longer into your Profile.

Thats wrong. Current release version (1.9.3.3) can be installed either way. Later #development versions will only install into the program directory.