Good, non-Mozilla-based browsers?

General discussion about web technology.
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gracious1
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Re: Good, non-Mozilla-based browsers?

Post by gracious1 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:38 am

barbaz wrote: I use 64-bit Linux, mainly Lubuntu 14.04. Any suggestions for browsers to look into?
Hi, I use Ubuntu 14.04 myself.
barbaz wrote: - Pale Moon is a nice browser. But historically it hasn't kept up with supporting HTML5 features needed by the sites I visit. And (correct me if I'm wrong on this) their dev team might not be able to keep it going long term - they already had to rebase once on newer Mozilla code.
Which sites do you have trouble with? People who have trouble getting videos to play get support at the Pale Moon Forum, and generally their issues are resolved.
I can't speak to the history, but presently Pale Moon and Goanna, Pale Moon's layout and rendering engine, are actively being developed to comply with the latest web standards (incl. javascript, CSS, HTML5). Furthermore, they are developing an entirely new platform, the Unified XUL Platform, or UXP, on which to build XUL-based applications. Pale Moon will be ported to this new platform next year, I believe.
barbaz wrote:Must-haves include:
- ability to totally kill DRM support, or no DRM support at all
- ability to "just" write my own extensions for personal use (and a sufficiently powerful extensions system). This means no forced addon signing or the like.
- ability to make minor customisations to the UI, like with CSS
- no bloat. No social share crap, no bundling random 3rd party services, etc, etc.
Pale Moon does not support DRM.
You can easily make customizations, including full themes and personas (lightweight themes). You can make customizations directly with CSS or with Stylish. There is no add-on signing, so just create what you want. No bloat. I think it meets your standards. :)
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.9) Gecko/20100101 Goanna/3.2 Firefox/45.9 PaleMoon/27.4.2

barbaz
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Re: Good, non-Mozilla-based browsers?

Post by barbaz » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:50 am

gracious1 wrote:Which sites do you have trouble with?
https://forums.informaction.com/viewtop ... 823#p86823
gracious1 wrote:Pale Moon does not support DRM.
You can easily make customizations, including full themes and personas (lightweight themes). You can make customizations directly with CSS or with Stylish. There is no add-on signing, so just create what you want. No bloat. I think it meets your standards. :)
Pale Moon certainly does meet most of my requirements, like I said, when I get time to properly deal with this I need to give Pale Moon another, more serious try.

Thanks for the additional info.
*Always* check the changelogs BEFORE updating that important software!
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gracious1
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Re: Good, non-Mozilla-based browsers?

Post by gracious1 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:28 am

barbaz wrote:Look at the reasons for the rebase - https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?t=11529
Has something changed there?
Why, yes, a lot has changed. So much that I don't know where to begin. More developers for one thing; participation has greatly increased AFAIK.

The other browser project mentioned in the post has become Basilisk along with a new platform called UXP which I explained in another post. It will replace the Mozilla platform. Basilisk forks from Firefox 55-ish, although it uses some 51-54 elements.

I prefer Pale Moon to Basilisk because PM has greater extensibility, and Basilisk supports DRM (although the user may disable it).

Also bear in mind that PM has its own layout engine now, called Goanna.

BTW, I find this terminology summary helpful:
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?t=15809
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.9) Gecko/20100101 Goanna/3.2 Firefox/45.9 PaleMoon/27.4.2

barbaz
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Re: Good, non-Mozilla-based browsers?

Post by barbaz » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:00 am

We had to switch away from Mozilla-based browsers already. After some research and trying out various browsers, the best option for me atm is Waterfox. So I'm now a Waterfox user.

But Waterfox appears to be a one-man project with big ambitions. Knowing firsthand what one-person projects are like, I have some concerns about Waterfox's long-term future. So I don't consider this resolved.
gracious1 wrote:Which sites do you have trouble with?
I tried Pale Moon again, but unfortunately it's still problematic. Here's one example - http://html5test.com/compare/browser/index.html
Pale Moon 27.6.2, clean profile, that page's scripts choke before all the elements are in place and the result is useless. But that page works fine in other browsers, including Basilisk.

So Pale Moon won't be my primary browser. But Waterfox doesn't seem to be playing nice with Flash, so I might set up Pale Moon just for Flash. It looks to work fine with the one site I use that still requires Flash.
*Always* check the changelogs BEFORE updating that important software!
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yes_noscript

Re: Good, non-Mozilla-based browsers?

Post by yes_noscript » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:26 am

You dont use a browser because one website doesnt work? :shock:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:52.9) Gecko/20100101 Goanna/3.4 Firefox/52.9 PaleMoon/27.6.2

barbaz
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Re: Good, non-Mozilla-based browsers?

Post by barbaz » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:01 am

yes_noscript wrote:You dont use a browser because one website doesnt work? :shock:
Remember, my past experience with Pale Moon is 'nice browser that sadly doesn't work with all the websites I need to use'. So if I see a web compatibility problem within 5 minutes of trying Pale Moon again, my experience will tell me it is not an isolated incident.

Earlier in this thread, I was pretty vague about Pale Moon having web compatibility problems. Since Pale Moon apparently still doesn't work with some sites, I figured it might be worth providing a concrete example while I had one.
*Always* check the changelogs BEFORE updating that important software!
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