Changes in Firefox "-no-remote" switch and running Fx

[dhouwn]

WA2. Change the shortcut to use another switch. There is a "-new-instance" switch mentioned
(in Akkana's blog post) but I can't find any documentation for it.

Patch for Bug 716110 landed in Firefox 13, you would have to use Firefox Beta in order to be able to use this.

I have NoScript and some other extensions globally installed.

[DJ-Leith]

First, I apologise for the delay in posting: I've been away.

Second, thanks to for taking the time to read, think and then post.
All three posters: you know much more than I do and I'm grateful.
From my point of view this issue is an odd discrepancy. I can still use Fx and NoScript. I can work around.

However the fact that I can see these 'odd phenomena' does make me wonder about
the cause and the possible impact.

I think the cause is the combination of:
A. My use of several profiles: nearly all started with the "-no-remote" switch,
nearly every (but NOT EVERY) time. I do, occasionally, use the Profile Manager.
B. Mozilla making changes to the meaning of the "-no-remote" switch.
C. Mozilla have introduced a "startupCache".
There seem to be TWO of these a "Local" as well as one in "Roaming":

Code: Select all

C:\Users\UserNameHere\AppData\Local\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\rywfzqk3.ProfileNameHere\startupCache

Code: Select all

C:\Users\UserNameHere\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\rywfzqk3.ProfileNameHere\startupCache

To give you an idea of my thinking:

* The reason why I posted here is because I saw the 'odd phenomena' when I was updating
NoScript (when Fx does a restart) or when I was starting Fx. It is, IMHO, not a support issue
but it may impact NoScript development.

* The reason I posted pictures is the complement my poor written description.

* The reason why my first post, in this thread (Thu May 03, 2012 8:43 pm) is so long,
is that I wanted all readers to see the background (to my specific use)
AND what I had already done to assess the issue
AND some further reading (some of this is introductory and some is highly specific to the issue - at least I think it is).

* The reason why the STR is so long - I was trying to:
A. Eliminate any question of 'Profile corruption' - by having a new Profile.
B. Simulating several weeks of Updating NoScript, starting and closing Fx,
using the "-no-remote" switch and NOT using the "-no-remote" switch.
Remember, I've only seen the 'odd phenomena' on my Laptop since 20 April 2012 (when I stopped using 3.6.28).
I have seen in on two other Windows 7 Laptops in April (or possibly as far back as March) 2012.

If you can think of a shorter / easier STR please do post one.

... everything else described is not a NoScript issue per se, but rather a Firefox issue.

I agree.
I think the changes in Firefox may mean that using the "-no-remote" switch
is no longer 'to be relied upon as in previous methods of usage'.

I was using a set of shortcuts almost all the time.

It is quite possible that I have for months (say from October 2011 to March 2012)
never (or perhaps just a couple of times) started Firefox with the Profile Manager
(which would change the Date and Time stamp on "profile.ini", potentially move the
line that has "Default=1" to a different Profile in the "profile.ini" file).

I do 'start and stop Firefox' quite often: most sessions will be less than
four hours. I know some folk run their browser for days, even weeks - not me.

Since I have stumbled across this I have been using my 3rd Work Around:-

WA3. Whenever you update NoScript, carefully use the Profile Manager to update all the Profiles,
one by one, rotating the "default" (as seen in "profile.ini"). I could do this.

So, I do not have a record of how frequently I was using, indirectly, the "profile.ini" file.
Right now I am NOT, I have started with a "-no-remote" switch.

On reflection, the first 'symptom' that I noticed was the 'NoScript splash screen' appearing
unexpectedly (when I was helping someone on their PC).

I did find the apparently two versions of NoScript, see Picture #01 in the first post,
quite disconcerting.

When I have seen the apparently NoScript reverting to a previous install (see Pictures #03, #04 and #05)
I have done a full round of NoScript Upgages, on all Profiles, NOT using the shortcuts (see WA3. above).
Why? Because the last thing I want is the false sense of security of a 'partial install'
/ 'broken install' of NoScript. I think NoScript has been working normally. I think the 'symptoms'
are 'not the true situation'. It is very little trouble - for me - to do a round of updates - to be on the safe side.

The main reason I posted here was the only symptoms I have seen have 'come to my attention'
when I have updating NoScript. Again, in Picture #01 there have been more than a dozen NoScript rc Updates,
since 27-April-2012, while none of the other Add-ons have had updates. Other Add-ons may also, no longer be
reliably updated, when using the "-no-remote" switch. I don't know.
If other people see this thread, with these pictures, it may assist them.

The second reason is Giorgio might like to know (if it reproducible by others).
Something, is some circumstances, triggers a 'show the User a NoScript splash screen' when I KNOW
I have not done an Update.

I speculate wildly: this could easily be some registry change that is NOT being made when one is
on a "-no-remote" session of Firefox. I don't know how much Firefox uses the Windows Registry.
Perhaps there is some caching (to make restarts or starts quicker) in the newer versions of Firefox that were NOT in
3.6.xx? Looking at a backup of a Profile from a 3.6.xx Profile I do NOT see the "startupCache" subfolder.

Code: Select all

Users ... [Profile Name]\startupCache

Also, when the NoScript (or another Add-on) does a Firefox restart (as part of the Update)
how does 'Firefox know which Profile to use' if it was started (as has been my practice for
many months) with a shortcut with a "-no-remote" switch?

I would have thought, in my lack of knowledge, that it was very likely
that the 'update decision' - to show or not to show the splash screen - could be made by
looking in the "prefs.js". As many reader will be aware this is in the Profile.

Another observation, while considering all of this:

The "Local" - NOT the "Roaming" part of the 'AppData tree'.

Code: Select all

C:\Users\UserNameHere\AppData\Local\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles

There seem to be some 'cached by Microsoft OS' PARTS of the Profiles.
If you look at your computer you will notice that the "Local"
is only a 'small part of the full Profile'.

The 'part' includes the \startupCache subfolder.

Code: Select all

C:\Users\UserNameHere\AppData\Local\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\rywfzqk3.ProfileNameHere\startupCache

I speculate wildly:
Perhaps these are 'referenced / read' first before the 'real Profile' WHEN (and only when)
Fx is started via the Profile manager?

Perhaps when Fx is started by the 'shortcut that has a "-no-remote" switch' the Local is bypassed
and only the 'real Profile' is used?

Code: Select all

C:\Users\UserNameHere\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\rywfzqk3.ProfileNameHere\startupCache

I am now going to answer some of your questions, starting with Tom T.'s question: which I saw before I went away.

DJ-Leith
continued ...

[DJ-Leith]

Tom T., thanks again for looking at this

While I have been away I was able to look at one of the other Computers: so I can report on two.

(at Sun May 06, 2012 6:20 am)
I believe you said that there was *no* native install of NoScript?

Yes, there is no machine wide install of NoScript.
NoScript is installed per profile.

So, if you look in Program folders

"C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\extensions\" <== Vista
or
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Firefox\extensions\" <== Windows 7 64 bit

There is no ...\extensions\{73a6fe ... subfolder.

Most Profiles have NoScript. One that does not is called "NO-NoScript".

In all the Profiles that have NoScript there is a NoScript xpi file:

Code: Select all

"{73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}.xpi"

e.g. in

Code: Select all

"C:\Users\UserNOAdmin\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\v0kx56co.20-TestNR\extensions\"

I believe you said that there was *no* native install of NoScript?
No Profile\Extensions subfolder 73a6fe....

I added emphasis.
Confirmed, there are no subfolders (for NoScript "{73a6fe...")
There are just XPI Files. The XPIs are in the Profiles.

On one of the Windows 7 machine, I have checked ALL Profiles in ALL the Windows User Accounts
and there are none. Remember, this has only had Firefox since January 2012.
I have seen some of these 'odd phenomena' on this Laptop.

However, on the 2007 Laptop, there are three exceptions to this.

First, just one Profile "A", for a User which is NOT a Windows Administrator, has a NoScript subfolder.
Second, there are two Profiles "B" and "C", for a User who has Windows Administrator privileges.

A. The User that is used for 'all normal tasks': i.e. everything except when I MUST
be an Administrator.
The single exception has the slightly unusual name: ending with a (110): "...232}(110)"

Code: Select all

Users ... [Profile Name]\extensions\{73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}(110)

In this folder the "NoScript_License.txt" is dated 28/09/2011 10:54.

The chrome subfolder is dated 28/09/2011 16:54 i.e. later that day.

Code: Select all

Users ... [Profile Name]\extensions\{73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}(110)\chrome

My interpretation is that "28/09/2011 10:54" reflects the version of NoScript, when Giorgio
created the XPI.
"28/09/2011 16:54" the time I updated to this version.
If this is the case it might be NoScript 2.1.4rc2.

The feed Recent all builds from noscript.net
http://noscript.net/feed?c=200&t=a
does not list 2.1.4rc2 but there is a NoScript 2.1.4 (stable release) 28 September 2011 22:17
IIRC Giorgio sometimes makes the last rc a stable release and so the last rc in a series
is sometimes not listed.

I installed Aurora (8.0a2) on 30/09/2011 - two days later.

B. A User who has Windows Administrative privilages.
Usually only used to Install Software.

Code: Select all

Users ... [Profile Name]\extensions\{73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}(124)

Like A the "NoScript_License.txt" is dated 28/09/2011 10:54.
The chrome subfolder is dated 30/09/2011 00:07.

Code: Select all

Users ... [Profile Name]\extensions\{73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}(124)\chrome

C. The same User who has Windows Administrative privilages has another Profile
with a NoScript subfolder.

Code: Select all

Users ... [Profile Name]\extensions\{73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}(128)

Like A the "NoScript_License.txt" is dated 28/09/2011 10:54.
The chrome subfolder is dated 29/09/2011 21:53.

Code: Select all

Users ... [Profile Name]\extensions\{73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}(128)\chrome

So, I think all three Profiles were updated at the end of September 2011
with 2.1.4rc2. I now take a wild guess that the (110) or (124) or (128) may reflect
the number of times that NoScript has been updated in the Profile.
Also, notice, that none of the Profiles for Aurora has NoScript subfolders.
None of the Profiles on the '2012 Windows 7' Computer have NoScript subfolders.

Do you think that the "{73a6f... ...232}(nnn)" subfolders could be a legacy of the OLD NoScript?
I have been using NoScript since September 2008 (since Ver 1.8.1).

Do you think I should make another set of Profiles to replace these 3?
I.e. make 3 new Profiles, install all the Add-ons that are used by these 3 OLD Profiles,
back up the OLD Profiles and then delete them?

In this way, we could eliminate ALL NoScript subfolders from ALL Profiles.

Code: Select all

Users ... [Profile Name]\extensions\{73a6fe ... a SUB-FOLDER 

However, after reading

(Mon May 07, 2012 4:00 pm)
Note that there are various "extension" related files in your Profile. And also that an extension can be left packed
as an XPI, or upacked into a directory.

I don't think this is necessary.

Also, to eliminate 'Profile corruption' as a confounding variable the STR uses a new Profile.

(Tue May 08, 2012 5:23 am)

Your STR have confused me.

I'm afraid that I too got a bit overwhelmed.

And the part about rolling back to some older version of NS, then updating to a newer, but still obsolete, version
seemed like an unlikely RL scenario, except for testing when a particular regression occurred, in which case....

The NoScript.net "URL", can be informative, but can be incorrect too, & is meaningless in the end.

Exactly.

Sorry, guys for the confusion.

In order to reproduce I tried to think of:
'How can I simulate several weeks use of Fx, starting and stopping, updating NoScript, using and NOT using
the "-no-remote" switch'. The idea was to 'do lots of updates' AND use different ways of starting Firefox.

Thanks, again, for your patience.

DJ-Leith

[DJ-Leith]

The current documentation at mozillaZine

(on Thu May 03, 2012 9:18 pm)
Opening a new instance of your Mozilla application with another profile
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Opening_a_new ... er_profile

There is this advice ...

...

(on Mon May 07, 2012 3:27 pm)

Important: Never use -no-remote to start the "default" profile ... because when you launch Firefox, for
example, by clicking a link in your mail program, you will get a Firefox is already running but is not responding
message

That is not really correct.
The "default" profile part (being named or set to "default") is not really material.
It is more (& I'm probably saying it wrong too) that if ONLY a profile(s) opened using -no-remote switch has been
opened, an external link (say a desktop shortcut) that attempts to open your browser will either prompt for a
profile to open, or respond with an "already running" message, depending on if you have used a -P command line
argument, or not, & or the setting of StartWithLastProfile= in profiles.ini. (Setting StartWithLastProfile=0 in
profiles.ini will cause Profile Manager to start up when clicking on an external link, allowing you to select a
different Profile, i.e. in that case no profile is set as "default" <& assuming you have more then one Profile>.)

I agree with you, that is what I thought too.
I think the cause of the newly observed 'odd phenomena' is possibly due to changes in
how Fx *now* does its startup
AND differences between 'startup via the Profile Manager - including reading the "profile.ini"'
vs Fx startup by shortcut (with a "-no-remote" switch) bypassing 'something' or using the wrong 'something' or
not communicating (because of the "-no-remote") with 'something'.

(at Tue May 08, 2012 8:20 pm)

WA2. Change the shortcut to use another switch. There is a "-new-instance" switch mentioned
(in Akkana's blog post) but I can't find any documentation for it.

Patch for Bug 716110 landed in Firefox 13, you would have to use Firefox Beta in order to be able to use this.

Yes, the only documentation I have found is in the blog post and the bug.
However, before I change my shortcuts I would want more information.
I do tend to read the documentation! So, I'm still keen to read more on the "-new-instance" switch.
I could try experiments using my Aurora: at the moment I only have one Profile (per Windows User) for Aurora.
Until I stumbled accross this issue I nearly always started Aurora using the shortcut with the "-no-remote" switch.

I have NoScript and some other extensions globally installed.

FYI, one of the the '2012 Windows 7 Laptops' is made by HP and it has a 'truesuite' extension that is global.
It is disabled.

DJ-Leith

[dhouwn]

So, if you look in Program folders

"C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\extensions\" <== Vista
or
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Firefox\extensions\" <== Windows 7 64 bit

Um no, it's the same in both, latter is where programs that are mainly 32-bit are ought to be installed in (in fact it's what %programfiles% points them to I believe) on 64-bit Windows flavours (I am pretty sure it was already like this on 64-bit Windows XP).

P.S.: our old thread on -no-remote in the non-NoScript-related section of this forum: http://forums.informaction.com/viewtopi ... =18&t=8080

[DJ-Leith]

So, if you look in Program folders

"C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\extensions\" <== Vista
or
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Firefox\extensions\" <== Windows 7 64 bit

Um no, it's the same in both, latter is where programs that are mainly 32-bit are ought to be installed in (in fact it's what %programfiles% points them to I believe) on 64-bit Windows flavours (I am pretty sure it was already like this on 64-bit Windows XP).

Before I posted the information, I had a look on one of the '2012 Windows 7 Laptops'.
This was the one I used to reproduce this issue.

(on Sat May 05, 2012 7:09 pm)
Try to reproduce on another computer.

This Laptop was purchased in 2012.
OS is Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit, 6GB RAM. ...

On this Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit Laptop there is
NO "C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\" folder.
However, there ARE Firefox programs files in "C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Firefox\" and there ARE some files in
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Firefox\extensions\" BUT NOT NoScript ones. There IS a 'truesuite' extension.

(on Fri May 11, 2012 4:12 pm) ... a 'truesuite' extension that is global.

So, on the Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit Laptop the files are where I reported them to be.
This might not be where other readers expect them to be - I'm just reporting facts.

P.S.: our old thread on -no-remote in the non-NoScript-related section of this forum: http://forums.informaction.com/viewtopi ... =18&t=8080

Yes, I know I read it before posting. I even referred to it (in the very first post in this thread)

(on Thu May 03, 2012 8:43 pm)
Running multiple versions of Fx simultaneously
http://forums.informaction.com/viewtopi ... =18&t=8080

I hope to, shortly, add another pair of pictures to illuminate this issue.

DJ-Leith

[DJ-Leith]

(on Mon May 07, 2012 4:00 pm)
Your STR have confused me.
I'll look them over again at some point.

The NoScript.net "URL", can be informative, but can be incorrect too, & is meaningless in the end.
If the NoScript icon & Addons Manager show something different, then there could be an issue?

Best to confirm what does exist by examining the NoScript XPI I would think.
Not sure where, how, Addons Manager gets its data?
Even the XPI install.rdf, <em:version>2.4.1rc1</em:version>, could be incorrect (not updated, by accident).

Note that there are various "extension" related files in your Profile. And also that an extension can be left
packed as an XPI, or upacked into a directory.

IMHO, there are many good points here.

First, while

The NoScript.net "URL", can be informative, but can be incorrect too, & is meaningless in the end.

may be true, in this case, it alerted me to 'unexpected information', strange phenomena.

Second,

If the NoScript icon & Addons Manager show something different, then there could be an issue?

In my experiments, to try and reproduce the issue, I now have the following situation:

Using the 'Profile that I use the most', "2... ...", I now have apparently
BOTH NoScript 2.4.1rc3 and NoScript 2.4.1rc1 at the same time!

If I start Fx, using the Profile Manager, and select "2... ..." then everything is NoScript 2.4.1rc3.
There is no 'NoScript spash screen' (for an Update or 'Downdate' ).
All seems 100% OK. I then close Fx.

However, if I start Fx, using the shortcut - the 'shortcut Target: field' is very similar to:

Code: Select all

"C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe" -profile 
"C:\Users\UserNOAdmin\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\AtoZandNumbersRandom.ProfileNameHere" -no-remote

FYI, the Shortcut properties were last changed 06-Oct-2011 (a few days after I had Installed Aurora)
and I've described my 'normal behaviour' / 'normal usage' above in this thread.

Again, I do NOT get a 'NoScript spash screen' BUT I do have the following 'odd phenomena'.


Picture #07 t=8626, about:config showing, apparently, 2.4.1rc1 of NoScript.
Remember, 30 seconds ago I KNOW that this is actually NoScript 2.4.1rc3.



Picture #08 t=8626, about:addons showing, apparently,
two versions of NoScript: 2.4.1rc1 and 2.4.1rc3.

So, I think the "About NoScript" is reading the "prefs.js" in the Profile.
The Modified Date and Time reflect WHEN I closed Fx.
BUT did it read this from the "prefs.js" in the Profile or did it 'get the data from another source'?
Perhaps from *one* of the startupCache? - see my post (above Fri May 11, 2012 3:16 pm).

I have tried to look inside a copy of the {73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}.xpi from the Profile
Modified 10-May-2012 (when I did the Update to 2.4.1rc3) but I can't post any useful facts.
I tried both Notepad and Wordpad in an attempt to read inside. I could not see a 'Version Number'.

DJ-Leith

[therube]

Let me see if I've got the right ...

-profile is used to specify a profile location, without the need for it being specifically referenced in profiles.ini?

That said, does AtoZandNumbersRandom.ProfileNameHere also exist in profiles.ini?

If so, how does: firefox.exe -P AtoZandNumbersRandom.ProfileNameHere -no-remote react?

Are the shortcut Start in: directories the same?

If you move the (or use a) profile from some "special" location (aka \AppData\Roaming\) to somewhere else (like a C:\TMP\) does the problem persist?

Running as the same user & at the same user level in all cases?

Confirm that you are actually opening the particular profile that you think you are. Observe the parent.lock file that gets created when a profile is opened might be one way.

The only extension installed is NoScript? And all plugins are disabled?
And if not, then if run that way, do you run into the same problem?

Confirm the location & version (size should suffice) of all installs of NoScript (so Profile|instalDir/extensions/{73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}.xpi).

An XPI is simply a ZIP file. So you can open it with 7-zip or WinRAR or whatever you might use for ZIP's. Within the ZIP (XPI) is a file install.rdf. Open that with a text editor (or file viewer) & you should find the XPI's version number referenced within. You could compare file sizes, but it is conceivable that two versions could be the same size, though in actuality, in NoScript's case, that is not very likely.

[DJ-Leith]

Let me see if I've got the right ...

Short answer, yes I think you have.
I'll answer each point in-line.

-profile is used to specify a profile location, without the need for it being specifically
referenced in profiles.ini?

Nearly correct (that are ALL in the "profile.ini" AND I can start Fx, using the shortcuts, to use ANY Fx Profile).
For clarification:
All the Profiles were created using the 'built into Firefox' Profile Manager. The "Don't ask at startup" is unchecked.
The "Profile.ini" has

Code: Select all

[General]
StartWithLastProfile=0

as the very top.
So, when I start Firefox I can choose which Profile to use, or press the "Create Profile" button etc.

Also, for clarification, when I say "... start Fx, using the Profile Manager, ..." (as I have said several times in this thread)
this is what I have been trying to convey: start Fx using this 'built into Firefox' Profile Manager.

For many months I have used a set of Shortcuts. These have not changed.
I think I have started Firefox hundreds of times (from October 2011 to 19 April 2012) using this set.
Often I had two Fx, using separate Profiles, running at the same time.
My most typical usage was one Profile for web email while another was general browsing.
Until I noticed the odd phenomena I might only have used the 'built into Firefox' Profile Manager
once or twice in more than 6 months usage. Also, you'll remember, I was on Fx 3.6.xx for most Profiles
until 20 April 2012 (just one Aurora Profile – per Windows User).

Shortcuts
An anonymised example (I've changed the Windows User Name) of one of the 'shortcut Target: field' is

Code: Select all

"C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe" -profile 
"C:\Users\UserNOAdmin\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\v0kx56co.20-TestNR" -no-remote

This actual example is a new shortcut that I created as I did the STR.
All the other 'real everyday shortcuts' have NOT changed since 06-Oct-2011.
Also, there are no spaces in the Profile Names. All were working well for many months.
Indeed, I've been using the "-no-remote" for years.

So, to reword your question.

-profile is used to specify a profile location,

Yes, the 'full path' - as in the example (above in this post and in previous posts in this thread).

without the need for it being specifically referenced in profiles.ini?

All the Profiles are referenced in the "profiles.ini" it is just that WHEN Fx is started using one of the
many Shortcuts (one per Profile) the effect of the 'shortcut Target: field' is to directly use the Profile.
The "profile.ini" is not used.
As the "profile.ini" is not used, the Modified Date and Time (of the "profile.ini") do not change.

That said, does AtoZandNumbersRandom.ProfileNameHere also exist in profiles.ini?

Yes they all are present. Here is part of the "profile.ini" file:

Code: Select all

[Profile11]
Name=15-NS-Dev
IsRelative=1
Path=Profiles/t5uutz5a.15-NS-Dev

[Profile12]
Name=20-TestNR
IsRelative=1
Path=Profiles/v0kx56co.20-TestNR
Default=1

The last profile used, 20-TestNR, is in this example the 'default'. It has "Default=1" in
the "profile.ini" and if I were to start Fx, using the Profile Manager, "20-TestNR" would be the highlighted
Profile in the dialogue.

If so, how does: firefox.exe -P AtoZandNumbersRandom.ProfileNameHere -no-remote react?

I had not tried that. You'll have noticed that all my Shortcuts give the 'Full Path' to the Profile.
So I tried to Run: firefox.exe -P v0kx56co.20-TestNR -no-remote and
it started the Aurora Profile Manager (Choose User Profile).

FYI, "C:\Program Files\Aurora\firefox.exe" is the full path to Aurora: the Program is "firefox.exe".

So I tried "C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe" -P v0kx56co.20-TestNR -no-remote
and I got a "Profile Missing"

Code: Select all

Your Firefox profile cannot be loaded. It may be missing or inaccessible.

I am NOT surprised - I always thought that I needed the full path.
So I tried the full command from the shortcut, which gives the full path to the Profile.

Code: Select all

"C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe" -profile
"C:\Users\UserNOAdmin\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\v0kx56co.20-TestNR" -no-remote

This worked. The date and time of the Profile "v0kx56co.20-TestNR" changed.
I then closed Fx.

I then started Fx, using the Profile Manager, and chose a different Profile (to move the "Default=1")
and closed it. The Date and Time of "profile.ini" changed.
Then I tried, in "Run"

Code: Select all

"C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe" -profile
"C:\Users\UserNOAdmin\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\v0kx56co.20-TestNR" -no-remote

and it started the Test Profile again.

Are the shortcut Start in: directories the same?

Yes, they are all "C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox" for Firefox.
The Aurora Shortcuts with "-no-remote" Start in: "C:\Program Files\Aurora", as you would expect.
Again, no change since 06-Oct-2011, to ANY of the shortcuts except the NEW ones made for the STR.

If you move the (or use a) profile from some "special" location (aka \AppData\Roaming\) to
somewhere else (like a C:\TMP\) does the problem persist?

I have not tried that.

Running as the same user & at the same user level in all cases?

Yes.

Confirm that you are actually opening the particular profile that you think you are. Observe the
parent.lock file that gets created when a profile is opened might be one way.

This is where we have some interesting results.

First: open two Windows Explorer windows
One - LOCAL

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C:\Users\UserNameHere\AppData\Local\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles

Two - ROAMING

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C:\Users\UserNameHere\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles

Note the Date and Times of the subfolder of the Profile that you are about to use.

1. If you start Fx, using the Profile Manager, then close it: you do NOT have to browse away from
your start page. FYI, I use 'blank'. You will see that BOTH Local and Roaming will now
have the Date and Time of WHEN you CLOSED Fx.

2. If you start Fx using one of your shortcuts, that has a "-no-remote" switch (as in the example
above in this post), then close it. You will now have the Date and Time of WHEN YOU Closed Fx
ONLY on the Roaming Profile NOT the Local Profile.

... Observe the parent.lock file ...

The parent.lock file is only in the Roaming Profile. It has the date and time when
you started Fx. When you close Fx it is destroyed.

This happens in
BOTH start Fx, using the Profile Manager,
AND start Fx using one of your shortcuts, that has a "-no-remote" switch.
This point, about the parent.lock file, is just what we would expect.

However, the point about the LOCAL Profile Date and Time NOT changing, when you
start Fx using one of your shortcuts, that has a "-no-remote" switch:
suggests that nothing is written. I speculate wildly that it is bypassed and nothing is READ either.

The only extension installed is NoScript? And all plugins are disabled?

Yes, only NoScript in the "v0kx56co.20-TestNR" Profile.

I can reproduce with all plugins disabled.
I did another full STR with all plugins disabled and then only NoScript. Profile "22-TestNR".

And if not, then if run that way, do you run into the same problem?

I can ALSO reproduce, as you have seen in the Pictures #01, #07 and #08, when there are other extensions.

Confirm the location & version (size should suffice) of all installs of NoScript (so
Profile|instalDir/extensions/{73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}.xpi).

I have not checked ALL the XPIs again. The files are where I previously reported, they are
all very recent. I am sure they are all now NoScript 2.4.1rc3 (09 May 2012 23:09) apart from
some test NoScripts for the STR. I've not done the Update to NoScript 2.4.2rc1 (12 May 2012 20:44).

An XPI is simply a ZIP file. So you can open it with 7-zip or WinRAR or whatever you might use for
ZIP's. Within the ZIP (XPI) is a file install.rdf. Open that with a text editor (or file viewer) & you
should find the XPI's version number referenced within. You could compare file sizes, but it is conceivable that
two versions could be the same size, though in actuality, in NoScript's case, that is not very likely.

This last point, is very helpful information. Thank you.

You will recall from Pictures #07 and #08 (posted Fri May 11, 2012 8:13 pm) that

If I start Fx, using the Profile Manager, and select "2... ..." then everything is NoScript 2.4.1rc3.
...
However, if I start Fx, using the shortcut ... ... apparently,
two versions of NoScript: 2.4.1rc1 and 2.4.1rc3.

I copied the {73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}.xpi from the Profile that
was used to produce Pictures #07 and #08
I used 7-Zip to extract it and the "install.rdf" does contain <em:version>2.4.1rc3</em:version>.
This confirms what I thought: this Profile is 2.4.1rc3.

I now tried the following experiment.
Start Fx, using the shortcut.
Type "about:config" in the Address Bar, edit "noscript.version" from 2.4.1rc1 to become
2.4.1rc2 - this is NOT true. Close the Tab.
Type "about:config" again and check that the 2.4.1rc2 is still present.
The Date and Time of "prefs.js" is the time of the edit. Close Fx.
Copy the "prefs.js" to another location. Edit with e.g. Notepad, and find it contains

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user_pref("noscript.version", "2.4.1rc2");

Start Fx, using the shortcut. All is as before i.e. as in Pictures #07 and #08, so I don't know where
the 2.4.1rc1, which is now back in the "prefs.js", is 'coming from'. Remember we KNOW it is is 2.4.1rc3.

A cache???

DJ-Leith

[dhouwn]

On this Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit Laptop there is
NO "C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\" folder.
However, there ARE Firefox programs files in "C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Firefox\"

As expected. Like I said, this is because 32-bit programs are supposed to go to latter location on 64-bit Windows. I just wanted to correct you on what seemed you claiming there being a difference between Vista and Win7 where there is none.

-profile is used to specify a profile location, without the need for it being specifically referenced in profiles.ini?

Indeed, and the path can point to any location, even on flash drives, etc. And if it does not exist a new one is created. profiles.ini is not touched.

BTW, there are plans to remove the profile manager (bug 214675), advanced users using this are advised to use a standalone application like Mozilla ProfileManager as a replacement: http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/utilities/profilemanager/

[therube]

> there are plans to remove the profile manager (bug 214675)

Yep. Hopefully SeaMonkey will never go that route.

> advanced users

Yep. Perpetuate the myth (wrong word) that FF users are nothing but a bunch of dummies.

> standalone ... Mozilla ProfileManager

Yep. I've looked at that before. A 15 MB (ZIP'd) app (36 MB unzipped) - so that you can simply change profiles. What a crock. But then it includes xulrunner .

-profile isn't the same anyway, because it puts everything in the same folder, whereas the create profile wizard separates the local and roaming data.

Explain?
(I never use windows "special" folders so not familiar.)

[therube]

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       <glob>	with windows networking, you can configure something called 'roaming profiles'
	<glob>	this is where your home directory is stored on the server
	<glob>	when you log into a workstation, it's copied locally, and when you log out the server is updated
	<glob>	however this doesn't make sense for all content
	<glob>	a classic example is a browser's disk cache
	<glob>	so the 'local' part of the profile is not stored on the server; just on the local workstation
	<glob>	the impact is greater than that (eg. backup applications generally don't back up local appdata), but that's the gist of it
	<therube>	glob: so whether you use "windows networking" an application may use both AppData\Local (or LocaLow) & AppData\Roaming for parts of its' data?
	<glob>	no; the local/roaming split is always there, and should always be used by applications
	<therube>	& how does or might -no-remote figure into that? as in is it possible for an extension to have different versions in Roaming & Local?
	<therube>	(ugh. that's what i need, another profile ;-) )
	<glob>	i'm not sure to be honest; however imho it's a bug that -profile doesn't split local/roaming data
	<therube>	glob: so now what "connects" AppData\Local to AppData\Roaming ? is that just a Windows mechanism that relates one to the other? as in profiles.ini simply show something like,Path=Profiles/rh4utedo. testprofile
	<glob>	they aren't connected outside of documentation
	<glob>	eg. it's possible for them to live on different drives
	<glob>	there's a part of your windows profile which points to their location
	<glob>	and applications query the locations individually
	<glob>	therube, there's a lot of these folders; http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx
	<glob>	we're talking about CSIDL_APPDATA and CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA
	<therube>	so %appdata% & %localappdata%
	<glob>	yes; but i don't think %localappdata% is available on all windows sytems we run in
	<glob>	could be wrong; it's been quite some time since i did windows dev
	<therube>	& it is up to the app to decide what parts get put where?
	<glob>	yes
	<glob>	so as a result many applications get it wrong

[Tom T.]

> there are plans to remove the profile manager (bug 214675)

Yep. Hopefully SeaMonkey will never go that route.

> advanced users

Yep. Perpetuate the myth (wrong word) that FF users are nothing but a bunch of dummies.

> standalone ... Mozilla ProfileManager

Yep. I've looked at that before. A 15 MB (ZIP'd) app (36 MB unzipped) - so that you can simply change profiles. What a crock. But then it includes xulrunner .

I share therube's eyeroll at replacing the built-in Profile Manager with a standalone that *is bigger than my entire %prog%\F3 folder*, and
*twice the size of the entire F2 folder*.

mozillaZine wrote:Important: Never use -no-remote to start the "default" profile ... because when you launch Firefox, for
example, by clicking a link in your mail program, you will get a Firefox is already running but is not responding
message

Horsepoop. I do that all the time. I did it just now, to prove the point.

IDK about launching Firefox by clicking a link in an e-mail. I don''t click executable links in e-mails. Call me old-fashioned, or paranoid .... or security-minded.

I didn't read all of this, and IDK everything about Win 7, but where I live, the NS folder is *not* in any Program Files folder, but rather in
%appdata%\mozilla\firefox\profiles. Each profile there, in its Extensions subfolder, has its own NS folder, 73a6... etc (with a country code prefix for non-US or non-English localizations, IIUC).

Locations on other systems are in the MZ article on profile.

[therube]

So I created a new profile called "roaming".

And on opening I end up with
...\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\SeaMonkey\Profiles\rh4utedo.roaming
&
...\AppData\Local\Mozilla\SeaMonkey\Profiles\rh4utedo.roaming

Roaming containing the majority of my profile; bookmarks (places), session information, extension information ...
Local containing only Cache files.

That was with starting SeaMonkey using: seamonkey.exe -no-remote -P, then selecting the "roaming" (aka rh4utedo.roaming) profile from profile manager.

Next I started SeaMonkey (from within my SeaMonkey instalDir) using: seamonkey.exe -profile Profiles/rh4utedo.roaming -no-remote.

What that did, was to create a new profile, named (& at) Profiles\rh4utedo.roaming, as a subdirectory to my SeaMonkey instalDir.

So I now have two physical profiles, both named rh4utedo.roaming.

One is in my AppData directory tree (with parts in Local & parts in Roaming).
The other is in my instalDir/Profiles.

Only the former one is referenced in profiles.ini.

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[Profile9]
Name=roaming
IsRelative=1
Path=Profiles/rh4utedo.roaming
Default=1

Running, seamonkey.exe -profile Profiles/abc.roaming -no-remote, created yet another profile in my instalDir/Profiles, named abc.roaming. That also is not referenced in profiles.ini.

[therube]

So what does that mean?
Not sure, except that thinking you're likely mixing a bit of this & a bit of that without a clear understanding of what the implications of doing so are?

I have never used -profile before, always using just -P to specify a particular profile to use (or to bring up Profile Manager to manually select a profile).
I do use -no-remote with -P - all the time, even now.

I would have to investigate the -profile switch more fully to understand what it does, & in particular what happens if used in a path in some "special folder" location, like ...\AppData\*.

Oh, & other then just now, I have never had a profile in ...\AppData\... or any "special" folder for that matter.
All of the data in my profiles are within the profile itself, nothing split out in any \roaming\ or any other directory.