Changes in Firefox "-no-remote" switch and running Fx

[DJ-Leith]

Subject: Changes in Firefox "-no-remote" switch and running Fx with specific Profiles

I first noticed, and started to document this, on my Laptop on 27 April 2012.
However, I think I have seen this on other Windows PCs before this.
I think the cause is due to changes in the "-no-remote" start up switch.



Picture #01 t=8626, about:addons showing, apparently, two versions of NoScript.

In this screen shot I appear to have two versions of NoScript! (2.9.3rc3 and 2.9.3rc4)

Notice, in passing, these are the Add-ons that I use and recommend.
Just MHO, not a plug or an endorsement.
The "Add-on Bar" (was Status Bar in 3.6.xx) has L-R, NoScript, RequestPolicy, then on the Right, RefControl and JSView.

I like to see the Menu, and it is easier to describe (on the phone or in posts)
the steps one would take to accomplish a task. In this case (to see this screen on your Firefox): Menu, Tools, Add-ons.
Or you could type "about:addons" in the Address Bar.
Then hover over the NoScript Icon to see the NoScript Version.

This very useful change, to see the NoScript Version, was introduced in NoScript 2.1.2rc4 (06 July 2011 19:50)

BACKGROUND

I have a very old (2007) Laptop with 1GB RAM.
OS is Windows Vista and I try and do as much as possible without logging in to Windows with an account with
Administrator privileges.
Until 20 April 2012 I was using Fx 3.6.xx, I then moved all my Fx Profiles to Fx 11. Now on Fx 12.
Since September 2011 I have also been using Aurora.
I have many Firefox Profiles.
In my Admin account: 2 Fx Profiles and 1 Aurora Profile.
In my NON-Admin account: I mainly use 4 Fx Profiles and 1 Aurora Profile.
I also have a PortableApps 3.6.28 on my Hard Disk (and on a USB Flash RAM stick) - separate Profiles for these as well.

Nearly all the time I launch Fx (or Aurora) using specific shortcuts that use the "-no-remote" switch.

For example, the 'shortcut Target: field' could be:

Code: Select all

"C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe" -profile 
"C:\Users\UserNOAdmin\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\v0kx56co.20-TestNR" -no-remote

Where the Windows User is "UserNOAdmin", meaning 'A User who does NOT have Administrator' rights e.g. "John".
The Profile, in the Firefox Profile Manager, would be "20-TestNR".
I'll describe this in another post (below) when I show how to reproduce this issue.

Using the separate instances of Fx, with their separate Profiles, I can have two versions of Fx running at once: very useful.
I have been doing this for a couple of years: long before I started to use Fx AND Aurora.

As I have so many Profiles to maintain I frequently use the feed (as a Bookmarked URL).

Recent all builds from noscript.net
http://noscript.net/feed?c=200&t=a

I run the dev (RC) versions of NoScript in nearly all my Profiles.

At this point you might be thinking:
* is this Profile corruption?
* is this Add-ons conflicting?
* has he done Standard Diagnostics? http://kb.mozillazine.org/Standard_diag ... ion_issues
* are there any other threads on this in the http://forums.informaction.com?
* what does an internet search with https://startpage.com/ or google or bing find?

More on running multiple instances of Firefox

Firefox links: help yourself See the links in Firefox - Profile management
http://forums.informaction.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2557

Running multiple versions of Fx simultaneously
http://forums.informaction.com/viewtopi ... =18&t=8080

More on recent changes to the internal (to Firefox) meaning of "-no-remote"
and how this is breaking the 'previous behaviour when starting Fx with the "-no-remote" switch'.

Firefox stopped accepting remote commands
http://shallowsky.com/blog/2012/Apr/24/
In Akkana's blog post there links to some recent bugzilla bugs e.g. 716110.

Summary: split -new-instance flag out of existing -no-remote flag
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=716110

However, I can't find much.


DJ-Leith

Next, I show you what happens when I create a new Profile and
try and reproduce this issue.

Edited, 05-May-2012, to add Picture Caption.

[DJ-Leith]

Steps To Reproduce (STR)

1. Use the Firefox Profile Manager (see links in the post above for help) to create a new Profile.
I called mine "20-TestNR" (for "No Remote").

2. Still using the Profile Manager, start Firefox using the new Profile ("20-TestNR").

3. Close it and open Fx again few times (at least twice) so that it is not a 'first run'.

4. Optional: change some settings e.g. I'm showing the Menu, the Add-on Bar, put my "NoScript button"
on the Add-on Bar, change the Privacy settings etc.

5. Bookmark Recent all builds from noscript.net
http://noscript.net/feed?c=200&t=a

6. Install an old NoScript, by right clicking one of the XPIs in the Feed, and "Open Link in New Tab".
Choose a RC (i.e. Dev) version that is at least 2 stable releases old.



Picture #02 t=8626, NoScript Install splash screen showing a First Install of NoScript
(STR 6, NoScript 2.3.7rc1).

Here you can see that I have chosen 2.3.7rc1.
Released: 29 March 2012 00:57

See the URL in the Address Bar and also the "Looks like you are running..."

Close Fx.

7. Still using the Profile Manager to start Fx, start it and go back to the feed and now
install a RC that is a minor version newer e.g. 2.3.7rc3.

8. Close Firefox. Now make a shortcut to start Firefox, with -no-remote, using the Profile
that you have been using for this test. See the post above.
For general guidance see Shortcut to a specific Profile http://kb.mozillazine.org/Shortcut_to_a ... ic_profile

9. Use the shortcut to start firefox with -no-remote.

10. What version are you using? Check the about:addons and the 'hover over the NoScript button'.

11. Use the Recent all builds feed to upgrade to a newer NoScript, past a stable release change:
e.g. go from 2.3.7rc3 to 2.3.8rc1. When you restart, as part of the install, you will get a
'NoScript install splash screen' because you have a new Major Version.

12. What version do you have now? Check the about:addons and the 'hover over the NoScript button'.

13. Close Firefox. Now start Firfox in the normal way, using the Profile Manager, and choose
the "20-TestNR" Profile.




Picture #03 t=8626, NoScript Install splash screen showing update FROM 2.3.8rc1 TO 2.3.7rc3 (STR 13).

What do you see now? Which version do you have?
In the screen shot I have apparently gone FROM 2.3.8rc1 TO 2.3.7rc3 ! Look at the URL.

Edited to Add (05-May-2012)
14. Close Firefox. If you have still NOT seen any strange phenomena - now try and use one of your regular shortcuts,
with a -no-remote, to start one of your 'everyday Profiles'. See Picture #05 in a post (below).
[/Edit of 05-May-2012]

So, now you could have doubts at to 'what is true' in terms of the Version reported.

If you sometimes use the Profile Manager and sometimes use the shortcut with the -no-remote switch
you can get these odd results.

DJ-Leith

Next, I will discuss other considerations and ask some questions.
continued...

Edited to add, 05-May-2012, Picture Captions and STR 14.

[DJ-Leith]

In the mozillaZine
Opening a new instance of your Mozilla application with another profile
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Opening_a_new ... er_profile

There is this advice

Important: Never use -no-remote to start the "default" profile (the one that is set to open without asking when you launch Firefox). That's because when you launch Firefox, for example, by clicking a link in your mail program, you will get a Firefox is already running but is not responding message if the default profile is already in use. The solution is to always start the default profile normally and launch all others with -no-remote. Then it will work.

I've not been following this.
For example: I have, in the recent past, done the following.

A. Login to Windows with an Account that has Administrator privileges.
B. One by one, right click the 'shortcuts with -no-remote' to "Run as administrator", do the UAC, to launch Firefox
and update the Add-ons for that Profile. I had previously granted my Account that has Administor privilages
permission to change the Profile for the 'NON Administrator Users' on this system.
This worked without issues for many months. However I was on 3.6.xx and Aurora for most of that time.

The explanation given (in mozillaZine - above) about why you should "Never use -no-remote to start the "default" profile ..." may well be true BUT I now think there are additional issues. I think these may be due to recent 'under the hood' changes as to the meaning of "-no-remote" as used by Firefox 9 and newer.

I have NOT got to the bottom of this.
For the moment, I am using the Profile Manager, more than in the past, - to update NoScript.
In this way the "default" profile (the one that is remembered as the one you used last)
is rotated round the profiles as I do the updates.

I am still keen to continue to have several instances of Firefox running simultaneously,
using the shortcuts with -no-remote switches.

Questions:

1. Can anybody confirm?
2. Is there an open bug at bugzilla?
3. Is this an issue for the way NoScript displays its Version information?
4. What is now best advice: in relation to using -no-remote?

DJ-Leith

[Tom T.]

I know that we ask for details and steps to reproduce, but this might be a bit much.
Can you state the issue in a few sentences?

I just started Fx 3.6.28 normally (because F12 is on a flash drive), then started Fx 2.0.0.20 using -no-remote. (which would call its default profile).
F2 properly showed NS version as 1.10 in NS Menu and in Add-Ons box.
F3 properly showed NS version 2.4rc6 in NS Menu and in Add-Ons box.

Is the issue with reverting to earlier versions, then going to a later, but still obsolete, version of NS?
Is this something you would do regularly? If not, it seems kind of like a moot point, but I may be misunderstanding.

I have no trouble with the -no-remote switch.
Please advise what exactly is the problem here?

[dhouwn]

You have NoScript installed globally or per-profile (if former then you'll find "{73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}.xpi" in the extension folder of the installation directory as opposed the profile folder)? It's also possible to have both, but I am not sure whether either the profile always gets the upper hand or whether the higher version number always wins.

[DJ-Leith]

You have NoScript installed globally or per-profile (if former then you'll find "{73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}.xpi" in the extension folder of the installation directory as opposed the profile folder)? It's also possible to have both, but I am not sure whether either the profile always gets the upper hand or whether the higher version number always wins.

Good question: I can see how a globally installed NoScript could, hypothetically, produce a
'clash / conflict' with a per-profile NoScript.

O/T IIRC part of the issue with the Microsoft .NET Framework Assistant was that it was
installed globally / per machine and therefore all profiles would have it.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/ ... rs_at_risk

Short answer: I think NoScript is installed per Profile.
There is no evidence of a global install of NoScript on this Computer.

Feel free to skip the evidence and continue at the next post.

Evidence: that there is NO 'global NoScript installed'.
The only branch below
"C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\extensions"
is
"C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\extensions\{972ce4c6-7e08-4474-a285-3208198ce6fd}"
and I think this is the "Default Extension" for Firefox 12.
See http://www.systemlookup.com/FF_Extensio ... fault.html

You can see this extension, in your Firefox 12, in "about:addons" and select "Appearance" on the Left.
The icon looks like an Artist's Pallet.

Additional information
The date of the "extensions" etc folders (directories) is 19-Apr-2012
i.e Folders below
"C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\"
include:-

Code: Select all

19/04/2012  23:40    <DIR>          plugins
19/04/2012  23:40    <DIR>          res
19/04/2012  23:40    <DIR>          modules
19/04/2012  23:40    <DIR>          greprefs
19/04/2012  23:40    <DIR>          chrome
19/04/2012  23:40    <DIR>          extensions 

The date of the "components" folder is 24-Apr-2012, the date I upgraded from Fx 11 to Fx 12.

So I think NoScript is installed per Profile.

Specific evidence of NoScript Installed in the "20-TestNR" Profile

In the "20-TestNR" Profile (see STR above) there is a NoScript XPI file.

Code: Select all

"C:\Users\UserNOAdmin\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\v0kx56co.20-TestNR
\extensions\{73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}.xpi"

Dated: 03-May-2012 (the date I was installing NoScript, and then upgrading NoScript,
to do the STR prior to documenting it - see above).

DJ-Leith

[DJ-Leith]

I have no trouble with the -no-remote switch.
Please advise what exactly is the problem here?

@ Tom T., I know you are always so willing to spend your time and effort to assist,
I am very grateful.
I don't have a problem, at the moment, as I can still use all my profiles.
Like you, I have only recently stopped using Fx 3.6.xx as my main browser.

@ Other readers, if you use the "-no-profile" switch, for several profiles
AND you have Fx 12 as your main browser you might like to reproduce this.

I will now try and reproduce, and document this - on another computer.

DJ-Leith

[DJ-Leith]

Try to reproduce on another computer.

This Laptop was purchased in 2012.
OS is Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit, 6GB RAM.

Firefox was installed on 27-Jan-2012 when it was version 9.0.1.
Since then, Fx has been updated to 10, 11 and now 12.

There are, on one of the NON Administrator Windows Accounts, 5 Fx Profiles in regular use.
Normally Fx is started using a shortcut with a "-no-remote" switch (one shortcut per Profile).
So, a very similar set up to the OP.

NoScript is installed per profile.

Try to reproduce, using the STR

A. Try the exact steps 1-13, the new Profile called "TestNR20".
Failed (i.e. all is normal, no strange phenomena / NoScript Version doubts).

B. Try STR again (1-13). Make sure to follow all steps EXACTLY. The new Profile called "TestNR21".
Failed again. I am thinking: "Perhaps what I see on the old 2007 Laptop is a caused by
the build up of cruft since Fx 2?"

I then used one of the shortcuts, that is normally used to start Fx on this Laptop,
and I got this!



Picture #04 t=8626, NoScript Install splash screen showing update FROM 2.4rc8 TO 2.3.9rc4 (scaled to 800 x 500)

The Firefox "profile.ini" still has

Code: Select all

[Profile6]
Name=TestNR20
IsRelative=1
Path=Profiles/uicf8p1v.TestNR20

[Profile7]
Name=TestNR21
IsRelative=1
Path=Profiles/vj5geibv.TestNR21
Default=1

Notes on the "profile.ini"
N1. The Date and Time has not changed (because it is not in use, the "-no-remote" bypasses the "profile.ini").
N2. The "Default" is still "TestNR21".

Summary
I have reproduced: I will discuss what this might mean in another post (below).
I have added a step 14 to the STR in the post further up in this thread.

If others can reproduce it might assist in understanding if this is an issue that affects others.

DJ-Leith

[DJ-Leith]

Now I am back on my 2007 Laptop.

I have just started Firefox, using a shortcut to "2... ..." (the Profile that I use most often).

I saw this (which is not the 'true situation').



Picture #05 t=8626, NoScript Install splash screen showing update FROM 2.4rc6 TO 2.3.9rc3

At this point about:addons shows "NoScript 2.4rc6"
and 'hover over NoScript button' shows "About NoScript 2.3.9rc3".

Closing Firefox and starting it again, with the same shortcut, I still have about:addons showing "NoScript 2.4rc6"
and 'hover over NoScript button' showing "About NoScript 2.3.9rc3". Close Fx.

Now, starting Firefox with the Profile Manager.
I see that the "2... ..." Profile is highlighted (i.e. it will be the "Default=1" in "profile.ini")
and I now get this.



Picture #06 t=8626, NoScript Install splash screen showing update FROM 2.3.7rc3 TO 2.4rc6

This would be normal (i.e. it is upgrading forward to a newer RC) except that I have NOT done an update of NoScript!
At this point, about:addons shows "NoScript 2.4rc6"
and 'hover over NoScript button' also shows "About NoScript 2.4rc6". They agree - as one would expect.
I think that about:addons showing "NoScript 2.4rc6" has been the 'true situation'.
Neither NoScript Install splash screen has been the 'true situation' because I have NOT done a NoScript update.

Later, I did update to NoScript 2.4rc8.

DJ-Leith

[DJ-Leith]

I have no trouble with the -no-remote switch.
Please advise what exactly is the problem here?

To recap

Subject: Changes in Firefox "-no-remote" switch and running Fx with specific Profiles

I first noticed, and started to document this, on my Laptop on 27 April 2012.
However, I think I have seen this on other Windows PCs before this.
I think the cause is due to changes in the "-no-remote" start up switch.

I have noticed some odd phenomena.
Some examples of these odd phenomena include:
* when you start Firefox you get a NoScript Install splash screen showing an update WHEN you thought you
had already updated the Profile. That is, you 'see it again'. This is subtle. If you have all your Profiles up to
date then you might not see the very odd reverting (as in Pictures #03, #04 and #05).

* apparently NoScript updating when you know you have not (see Picture #06).
These first two examples are actually the same phenomenon.
The first one is "... you thought ..." the second one is "... you know ...".

* apparently two versions of NoScript installed (see Picture #01).

* apparently NoScript reverting to a previous install (see Pictures #03, #04 and #05).

I have now seen all three phenomena on three computers (only 2 computers used to document the above).

I think that using the "-no-remote" switch may be a factor.
In particular: sometimes using the "-no-remote" switch and sometimes
JUST using the Profile Manager. This was never noticed, by me, when I was using Fx 3.6.xx as my main browser.

I fear that Mozilla have been making changes to the 'internal, to Firefox, meaning of the "-no-remote" switch'.

Firefox stopped accepting remote commands
http://shallowsky.com/blog/2012/Apr/24/
In Akkana's blog post there links to some recent bugzilla bugs e.g. 716110.

Summary: split -new-instance flag out of existing -no-remote flag
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=716110

Although I do NOT know the cause (and AFAIK I'm the only person reporting this)
I can think of several Work Arounds (WA).

WA1. Do not use -no-remote.
I would rather NOT, I would prefer to keep the useful extra functionality of the -no-remote switch.

WA2. Change the shortcut to use another switch. There is a "-new-instance" switch mentioned
(in Akkana's blog post) but I can't find any documentation for it.

WA3. Whenever you update NoScript, carefully use the Profile Manager to update all the Profiles,
one by one, rotating the "default" (as seen in "profile.ini"). I could do this.

I know that we ask for details and steps to reproduce, but this might be a bit much.
Can you state the issue in a few sentences?

For "the issue" see just above (in this post).
For an outline of the STR see next.

Outline version of STR

WITHOUT using the -no-remote switch:

A. Make a new Test Profile, run it a few times (STR 1-4).

B. Add Noscript. Use an old version so that you can later update it with a slightly less old version.
Upgrade it at least once. During this process document your observations (STR 5-7).

C. Make a shortcut to run the Test Profile with the -no-remote switch (STR 8).

NOW USING the shortcut with the -no-remote switch run Fx with Test Profile:

D. Continue to observe. Do more NoScript Upgrades: try a RC that is newer than the next Major Version (STR 9-12).

THEN, WITHOUT using the -no-remote switch:

E. Start Fx and select your Test Profile (STR 13). At this point you might see the strange phenomena.

F. However, if you have NOT Reproduced, try ANOTHER shortcut which starts Firefox using one of the
Profiles that you normally use (STR 14).

Readers, if you normally use shortcuts to start Firefox with the -no-remote switch to use
as specific Profile - please try and Reproduce.

Questions:

1. Can anybody confirm?
2. Is there an open bug at bugzilla?
3. Is this an issue for the way NoScript displays its Version information?
4. What is now best advice: in relation to using -no-remote?

Thanks,

DJ-Leith

[Tom T.]

Somewhere in this thread -- and I'm sorry that I didn't quite get through every word of it -- I believe you said that there was *no* native install of NoScript?
No Profile\Extensions subfolder 73a6fe....

I would think it would help if whatever is now the default profile for whatever is now the default browser showed this. Please try this?

It seems like everything else described is not a NoScript issue per se, but rather a Firefox issue. So if there isn't a Bugzilla report filed, perhaps you should file one. It doesn't seem like NS is at fault here.

[therube]

Important: Never use -no-remote to start the "default" profile ... because when you launch Firefox, for example, by clicking a link in your mail program, you will get a Firefox is already running but is not responding message

That is not really correct.
The "default" profile part (being named or set to "default") is not really material.
It is more (& I'm probably saying it wrong too) that if ONLY a profile(s) opened using -no-remote switch has been opened, an external link (say a desktop shortcut) that attempts to open your browser will either prompt for a profile to open, or respond with an "already running" message, depending on if you have used a -P command line argument, or not, & or the setting of StartWithLastProfile= in profiles.ini. (Setting StartWithLastProfile=0 in profiles.ini will cause Profile Manager to start up when clicking on an external link, allowing you to select a different Profile, i.e. in that case no profile is set as "default" <& assuming you have more then one Profile>.)

[therube]

I typically only update extensions on particular profiles of mine.
Other profiles "run wild" & may or may not have extensions installed, & may or may not be current if they do.

So for those that I always update, I use a batch file to perform the updates & to also archive my extension versions.
Browser (or at least the Profiles I update) need to be closed for the updates to complete successfully.

Code: Select all

@echo off

cp -p -i noscript*.xpi abc
move abc {73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}.xpi
echo Copied noscript.xpi to {...3232).xpi
echo.
pause

cp -p -i flashgot*.xpi abc
move abc {19503e42-ca3c-4c27-b1e2-9cdb2170ee34}.xpi
echo Copied flashgot.xpi to {...ee34).xpi
echo.
pause

cp -p -i {73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}.xpi C:\WLIB\Mozilla\therube\extensions\
cp -p -i {73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}.xpi C:\WLIB\Mozilla\RX\extensions\
move     {73a6fe31-595d-460b-a920-fcc0f8843232}.xpi L:\XFER\NETT\Mozilla
move     noscript*.xpi                              L:\XFER\NETT\Mozilla
echo Updated NoScript /extensions/: therube & RX
echo   Moved NoScript to: /LIB/
echo.
pause

cp -p -i {19503e42-ca3c-4c27-b1e2-9cdb2170ee34}.xpi C:\WLIB\Mozilla\therube\extensions\
cp -p -i {19503e42-ca3c-4c27-b1e2-9cdb2170ee34}.xpi C:\WLIB\Mozilla\RX\extensions\
move     {19503e42-ca3c-4c27-b1e2-9cdb2170ee34}.xpi L:\XFER\NETT\Mozilla
move     flashgot*.xpi                              L:\XFER\NETT\Mozilla
echo Updated FlashGot /extensions/: therube & RX
echo   Moved FlashGot to: /LIB/
echo.
pause

exit


:: copy does not work, cause it creates a "copy", so date time of the copy are set to current
:: xcopy does not work, cause it ALWAYS prompts asking if the target is a file or a directory
:: cc (xxcopy) does not work, cause it cannot copy a file to a file, only a file to a dir

:: cp works, but time may differ a few seconds
::      -p --preserve attributes (including date time)
::      -i prompts if an overwrite condition exits
::      non-existing source just drops an error message, but so what

[therube]

Your STR have confused me.
I'll look them over again at some point.

The NoScript.net "URL", can be informative, but can be incorrect too, & is meaningless in the end.
If the NoScript icon & Addons Manager show something different, then there could be an issue?

Best to confirm what does exist by examining the NoScript XPI I would think.
Not sure where, how, Addons Manager gets its data?
Even the XPI install.rdf, <em:version>2.4.1rc1</em:version>, could be incorrect (not updated, by accident).

Note that there are various "extension" related files in your Profile. And also that an extension can be left packed as an XPI, or upacked into a directory.

[Tom T.]

Your STR have confused me.

I'm afraid that I too got a bit overwhelmed.

And the part about rolling back to some older version of NS, then updating to a newer, but still obsolete, version seemed like an unlikely RL scenario, except for testing when a particular regression occurred, in which case....

The NoScript.net "URL", can be informative, but can be incorrect too, & is meaningless in the end.

Exactly.