Is newer always better? + Modularity-Compatibility issues

[Aquifer]

(Split as O/T from NS Support, "[RESOLVED] no script icon is gone" -- Tom T.)

Oh, terrific , I couldn't update to Firefox 4 because my machine doesn't meet "system requirements" - Power book G4 has "old" IBM, not Intel, chips (tried several times before I discovered that), so wonder what I will do when they discontinue support for 3, does that mean it will disappear? The tech age isn't friendly to us "old folks" or "old" machines ...

[dhouwn]

Indeed, PowerPC-powered Mac computers are unsupported as of Firefox 4+, you could either stick with 3.6 which might be bad idea security-wise but since you are anyway running it an operating system that gets no security updates anymore one could argue that you are unsafe one way or another…, or you could use the unoffical TenFourFox, or, what I personally would do if I owned a PowerPC-powered computer, is to see if I can install a actively maintained Linux distribution onto it (best one that offers the newest Firefox through its package manager).

Interesting, related read: http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic ... &t=2323835

[GµårÐïåñ]

Fx 3.x is old, but not necessarily = unsafe as a general assumption. Your Mac is old, but also not necessarily = unsafe as Mac doesn't get much malware or viruses designed specifically for it because it doesn't target a large enough audience to be worth it, and even they did, it would be aimed at more recent cloud capable ones. So if you have 3.x on an old mac and you follow good practices and take reasonable precautions, you are not just left in the dust, you will be fine. It would be nice if you could update and stay in step with the progression of hardware and security (although in recent years progress has meant less security, but topic for another discussion) but if not, that doesn't mean you can't make the best of what you already got.

[Aquifer]

That's why i got Noscript, for "security" purposes - I am glad i keep getting updates on that, so far anyway ...

As for Linux - methinks that is probably quite beyond my lo tech brain capability.

For what i use a computer for, i really don't need a lot of bells and whistles, and "speed" is not my thing. I think I may need to get a newer car (have a '93 Buick) before I get a newer computer :)

Thanx, again ...

[Tom T.]

Another direction to consider is "defense in depth". For example, regardless of browser or OS obsolescence/currency, running the browser in some type of third-party sandbox adds another layer of protection. I get asked to go to some pretty weird places here, and to disable NS or temp-allow some sites/sources I've never heard of, and wouldn't think of doing that without an additional "Internet condom", so to speak.

There are many such products, some of them freeware or nagware. Without giving any official endorsements, or accepting any liability for your use of same, I'll mention that I have used Sandboxie for many years, and been reasonably satisfied (and uninfected). Also, I think their explanation of the concept and the operation is pretty friendly to the non-tech user. Fellow Mod Alan Baxter liked my recommendation and was very fond of it -- don't know if he's still using it. IMHO. YMMV.

p. s. As I've mentioned several times in passing, I still have a working copy of Fx 2.0.0.20 installed, which ended support at the end of 2008. For example, when there was some question about what versions of Firefox supported which versions of Adobe Flash plug-in, I found that Adobe's "system requirements" lied. In fact, the newest Flash 11.x.x ran successfully on Fx 2. But again, I wouldn't run that old browser without additional castle walls. Also, what GµårÐïåñ said: Who on Earth would spend their time writing exploits (attacks) for a browser with probably less than 0.1% market share? ... not that that's a guarantee. Do this at your own risk, or not at all.

[Aquifer]

Thanx - I switched from Safari which is "built in" on the Mac, to Firefox for such things as Adbloc Plus and No Script (am now having problems losing Adbloc Plus since i started trying to get No Script back, which i am trying to deal with on THAT forum!), so if I ditch Firefox, guess i will be stuck with Safari, which isn't updating itself anymore on my machine (outside of an occasional I-Tunes one) either ...

it really "bugs" me that you seem to have to buy a whole new machine just to get programs that work - I can still get parts, though it is getting harder, for my '93 Buick, for Pete's sake. And am still getting my '82 snowblower fixed.

Will check out Sandboxie .....

Now i know how old folks feel when they are told they are "too old" to get fixed

[GµårÐïåñ]

IIRC Sandboxie won't run on MAC but don't quote me on it. But there are other options, no worries. Also, don't go down that road of too old to fix, there is nothing to fix sometimes, old is just as good as long as you know your limitations and learn how to work within them and still remain solid. Just shore up your defenses and keep going, you'll be fine. I know people still using Windows 95 and successfully and securely getting by without issues, would it preferred if they didn't, sure it would, but who cares, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You get an old house, you may renovate and fix it up but you don't always necessarily tear it down and burn it to the ground and build a new one do you? Of course not, at least not in all cases. Just saying, don't sell yourself short. [/soapbox]

[Aquifer]

I like the way you think - to tell you the truth, i think the planet would be a lot better off if we fixed stuff instead of throwing it away and getting new "stuff" .... So here's to the Mr. and Mrs. Fixits of the world. Cheers!

[Tom T.]

I like the way you think - to tell you the truth, i think the planet would be a lot better off if we fixed stuff instead of throwing it away and getting new "stuff" .... So here's to the Mr. and Mrs. Fixits of the world. Cheers!

Ditto you and the Big G. I bought a car in 1985 and didn't sell it until 2006. It was superior in what it had and in what it *didn't* have -- such as RF digital signals fro the engines's computer, tire pressure sensors, etc. that could be remotely hacked, thereby causing the engine to stop until reset by a shop. Search the web for such stories.

I'm still on XP ....

It's a tough call, but as GµårÐïåñ says, staying on F3+NS, combined with additional layers of defense in depth, may be as safe, or safer, than switching to a less-safe, though supported, browser. I'm reluctant to go to Fx 11+ completely, although as a Mod here, I suppose I should set an example...

[GµårÐïåñ]

Sometimes the lack of being "current" works to your advantage (although sometimes it doesn't too) but think that most of the baddies are relying on NEW tech and vulnerabilities to go after people right? So the "older" tried and true systems are often more secure and less in the sight of the ones trying to do harm, so sometimes not having what they can exploit may be the safety in itself.

Like my good friend Tom said, I used to have an old Ford truck, you opened it up and it was an engine block, some hose and wires and that's it, I could rebuild and service that thing like nothing and you dropped a wrench, it would hit the floor below it. Now, you got these sealed boxes, and wires and its packed so tight with so much crap (ok not all bad but still) that if you dropped a wrench, you'd be lucky to ever find it again, hell with it ever coming out the other end. Half the time you can't even reach in there with my 6'3" frame and gorilla hands and I think, who thought this was an improvement?

Anyway, for someone who is on the cutting edge as a hazard of my job and life, it might seem hypocritical to think like this or even ass backwards, but honestly, sometimes I miss the simplicity. Look at the modules built for the older NASA systems, 64k of memory and it was written in Cobol and they are STILL functioning, but the new snazzy sh*t needs update every other year because something breaks, I mean seriously? I miss the simplicity and efficiency of the old way of doing things sometimes, where function ruled over "snazzy". Oh well, life goes on, I keep up with it because I have to but in my personal life, I am still using the older more stable stuff, although truth be told, my desktop needs a nice rebuild

[Aquifer]

When this old rattle trap broke down a couple of years ago - i took it into the Apple store and they said - oh,no, we can't fix this - no parts. So i looked around,found another place and they scrounged up some parts "reconditioned it" and put it back together. Apple just wanted me to buy a new one - and that is what it is all about - if they wanted to I do believe they could make a machine that could be "infinitely" upgraded and repaired, unless physically destroyed. I am old enough to remember when one of the selling points of an article was - "This will last 'forever' ", parts were made to last, were modular and replaceable. Now everything is "integrated" and when one little piece goes - you have to replace a whole section, or the whole device .... Now planned obsolescence is the rule of the day, things are made deliberately to not last or be fixed, and, as you say, "improvements" are often the opposite, and if you want to go back to the "old way" - tough luck, you can't ..

Hang in there fellas, design a simple basic machine whose parts last and can be replaced or easily fabricated, uncluttered, and which can be "added to" or "subtracted from" as the user needs - a computer as rugged and simple and useful as a Vice Grip (my favorite "tool") where only the bells and whistles you want are there and you don't have to learn a whole new language to deal with it, but can trouble shoot using basic principles, as in Apollo 12, where they fixed their life support system with a rubber glove and some duct tape ..... One that works, "right out of the box". As "primitive" as this machine is, i don't use 90% of the stuff on it, and don't understand even the stuff that i do, but it came as a "package" ... I know - the "install" "uninstall" is supposed to be the equivalent, but somehow ....

I think when this machine goes, i may well not get another - until someone makes one like that ....

I find it very interesting that you folks who are on the cutting edge of this stuff also, at times, long for the "good ole days". I think that is true for us ole timers in medicine as well, and we are, hopefully, finding our way back - better late than never ...

The essence of elegance is simplicity, why is "simple" so difficult? Or is it that it it is just not "profitable"?

Good conversation - thank you :)

[Tom T.]

I probably should split this off to another topic in the Extras forum, but what the heck, another post or two...

When this old rattle trap broke down a couple of years ago - i took it into the Apple store and they said - oh,no, we can't fix this - no parts. So i looked around,found another place and they scrounged up some parts "reconditioned it" and put it back together. Apple just wanted me to buy a new one - and that is what it is all about -

In everything, not just computers. The grill over the compressor fan in my home's A/C rusted out. A new one (*just* the grill) could be special-ordered for about $250 + labor charge of $90 just to walk in the door. I spoke with the semi-retired owner of this 50-yr-old family-run business. He found a good grill on a unit that had been traded in for the energy credit, etc., painted it, replaced the rusted bolts, bolted the motor back on, and charged me $65 + $10 for his trouble. ... of course, I had been using their company for years, and they had installed the one whose grill rusted.

Funny - the unit had a 5-year warranty, and the grill rusted out after 6 years. Imagine that! - what are the odds?

if they wanted to I do believe they could make a machine that could be "infinitely" upgraded and repaired,

The one hitch in computers is that they will be technologically obsolete by the time they wear out. I kept my Win 98 SE machine despite all the hubub over XP, which proved to be Swiss cheese until they did two service packs in three years. Still, I kept the old one until its HD died in 2005. Replace the HD? It was 4 GB, not quite enough to hold the WINDOWS folder. ... The problem with putting in a larger drive is that laptop MOBOs are very model-specific, and not quite as flexible as desktops. Would have needed a faster CPU than the 450 MHz -- also not compatible. Even desktops have some limit as to how much you can upgrade, and what compatibilities -- video cards, etc.

But I'm typing this on that 2005 machine, with an additional 1 GB RAM stick, have kept it very "clean" and "light", and it runs fast and well. I don't need the bells and whistles either, and while those who work here, or read me, are tired of hearing this, I cut out 90+% of Windows, and the entire machine uses less than 1 GB of HD space. Overall, "planned obsolescence" is a curse of our times.

Now everything is "integrated" and when one little piece goes - you have to replace a whole section, or the whole device

Yup.

.... Now planned obsolescence is the rule of the day, things are made deliberately to not last or be fixed, and, as you say, "improvements" are often the opposite, and if you want to go back to the "old way" - tough luck, you can't ..

Sometimes, you can.

As "primitive" as this machine is, i don't use 90% of the stuff on it, and don't understand even the stuff that i do, but it came as a "package" ... I know - the "install" "uninstall" is supposed to be the equivalent, but somehow ....

Preaching to the choir, Brother ... I merely deleted that 90%. (Undocumented, not for the faint of heart, and not for novices. ... and only after backing up *everything*, in multiple ways on multiple media. As the ads say, "Do not try this at home." )

I find it very interesting that you folks who are on the cutting edge of this stuff also, at times, long for the "good ole days".

We've seen bloat and fireworks hailed as "progress", while security is ignored.... In the Old Days, they taught Principle of Least Privilege, not just for users, but for hardware and software components, and for entire systems.

KISS was coined by the lead engineer of the facility that built the world's fastest, highest-flying air-breathing airplane ever, the Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird, whose records of a few decades ago remain unbroken today. The linked article is very short, but don't miss the story of ....

Johnson handing a team of design engineers a handful of tools, with the challenge that the jet aircraft they were designing must be repairable by an average mechanic in the field under combat conditions with only these tools....

KISS is not only ignored, but despised today, apparently, in computers and everywhere else. Sad.

When memory and storage were scarce and expensive, efficiency was valued. Occam's Razor was applied to everything. Simplicity was better. Not now -- we've seen complications that add no value whatsoever, but increase bloat and attack surface. I won't bore you with an endless list of examples. The only explanation I could ever come up with was software engineers trying to justify their continued employment.

I think that is true for us ole timers in medicine as well, and we are, hopefully, finding our way back - better late than never ...

We certainly welcome modern diagnostic equipment, such as CT/PET scans, etc., but a return to the old-fashioned practice of viewing the pt. as a whole, as a person, and not as a collection of test results and a (passive) playing field for the competition between disease and doctor, would be most welcome.

I once had a doctor become very amazed when something healed itself. He said, "How could that be? I haven't done anything for you."
Did they not teach that the human body does in fact have some self-healing capabilities, else how could it have survived for those thousands/millions of years when there were no miracle drugs, fancy surgery, etc.?

The essence of elegance is simplicity,

Antoine de Saint Exupéry': "It seems that perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away".
Sort of how I treated my computer. I stopped when there was nothing left to take away (and still have the functions I needed).

why is "simple" so difficult? Or is it that it it is just not "profitable"?

"Ay, there's the rub." (Hamlet)
How can they make money if you keep the old stuff instead of buying new stuff? ... I think that explains it all.

Cheers,
-Tom

[Aquifer]

Well - THIS is definitely "on pointy" - I just finished a response - took me quite a while (am 2 fingered typist and try to edit for grammar, spelling and clarity), pressed "preview" - took me, not to "preview", but back to "control panel" where, apparently, i had to log in again and when i did and came back here, my response had disappeared ... I may try response again, but this time will pre-type it on separate "text" page and transfer so if it disappears again, I will still have it - this is a perfect example of why i am ready to throw this machine out the window ... (?

Is there a time limit, where if you spend "too long" the place "logs you out"?

[Aquifer]

Wait, I just Found It - (this a perfect example of having to rummage around in the "bin" to find something i just put down

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You got the juices flowing ----

"The grill over the compressor fan in my home's A/C rusted out ... He found a good grill on a unit that had been traded in for the energy credit, etc., painted it, replaced the rusted bolts, bolted the motor back on, ...."

Am doing that with my '93 Buick - suffering from terminal rust, I'm afraid - So far I have found a good welder, but he is giving me that look that says "Don't know how much longer ..."

But the reason i refer to your example - is it seems to me there should be a place, "on-line" where one can "bring in" one's old machine and get a "repainted grill" with new bolts. Or a franchise of local physical locations if you have to have physical hands on - i may take this bucket of bolts back to the place i did before, but that brings me to the second limitation you mention:

"Replace the HD? It was 4 GB, not quite enough to hold the WINDOWS folder. ... The problem with putting in a larger drive is that laptop MOBOs are very model-specific, and not quite as flexible as desktops. Would have needed a faster CPU than the 450 MHz -- also not compatible."

Don't know what a MOBO is, but why not a portable one you can plug in to the USB or Firewire or whatever? And if you had a "universal" one that you could program for the make and model of your machine - like those "universal remote controls", that would be, as they say "awesome" (or am I dating myself ...) As far as faster CPU's - why not a setup where speed is determined by how hard you press the gas peddle, as in a car? Or is that a dumb analogy ...
I am getting back to the modular idea ....

"Sometimes, you can."

And sometimes you can't - just tried to get a newer version of Flash player, and couldn't - actually, I don't even know what version i have or where it is or how to find it, which brings me to the next:

Why not set the system up so the user can design his/own filing system? And i don't mean naming a new file, but actually allowing the user to make, name and place on the screen his/her own "drawer" to put them in, instead of preset, prelabeled places which may bear NO resemblance to what the user would set up him/herself - with a "master" that automatically lists the stuff in that drawer which can be easily accessed. Don't know if you have noticed, but when a new clerk or sec comes to a place - the first thing usually done is to reorganize and rename files in a way that makes sense to him/her and they can find stuff in their own "system" lickety split, where they could never find the same stuff in another's - this is becoming "obsolete", as all files become computer files. I look at this stuff on the top or where ever and the labels/names make no sense to me - i have to put my stuff somewhere - so I make an arbitrary pick of what is "permitted" - but then can;t remember where it is or can't find it again 'cause it was basically arbitrary the first time ...

You could argue that these systems are mass produced and so must be generic - but our brains aren't all organized in the same way (no kidding!) and the stuff that is "intuitive" to programmers is not AT ALL intuitive to me - but if i could rearrange and relabel in my own way, or even set up a task in my own way, organizing the steps in a different order ...

Seems to me there should be a requirement that all OS are intercompatible - (guess that is what Open Source is about) - getting back to medicine - every time my hospital "upgraded" it's system, a whole new way of entering, finding, classifying information, and nobody but the clerk knew how to use it and if she wasn't there, you couldn't order a test, and sometimes the systems in different dept's couldn't talk to each other - if IT is supposed to make medicine more "efficient" - HA, good luck with that unless EVERYONE uses and is trained on the same system ...

"As the ads say, "Do not try this at home." )

Why not a system for computers like Home Depot for DIY home repairs? With off the shelf parts and diagrams and all that? Maybe these sites are supposed to be the equivalent, don't know ... Believe it or not, i am a DIYer, a tinkerer, an "inventor" ... Give me a vice-grip, a screw driver and some nuts and bolts (oh, and i forgot, some aluminum tubing ... and i will tackle about anything.

Computers, in so far as they ARE "tools" fir us to use, should be like that, IMO -

"such as CT ....

Hmmmm, how did we ever diagnose anything before CT ...? I agree they are useful, sometimes, but are, IMO overused, too expensive and subject patients to more radiation, which is itself an issue. Same with wonder drugs, sometimes are worse than the disease, produce side effects which then need more drugs to treat, etc - not mention making a hole in your wallet ....

There really is a reason I have "responded" to this post of yours in the way that I have and that is not to just go on and on and ...(i am a 2 fingered typist, so this takes me forever - when is decent voice recognition coming??) and that is i have just checked out your offsite post on the bottom - about how computers work - best explanation i have ever seen, and it has occurred to me that you, and perhaps others, ?like guardian, are just the kind of person(s) who has/have the approach and the know how, and perhaps the motivation, to make this stuff happen ...

With regard to medicine - insofar as our bodies are "necessary" for us, although i spent years of training in how to "manipulate" them in "clever" ways, i have come to understand that Mother Nature has already "invented" all the best designs and approaches and cures and that if we pay attention to the "basics" - good organic food, clean air and water, exercise - we may well not need all that hi-tech, super expensive stuff - in fact it seems more and more it is getting in the way. This is not just wistful, philosophical musing - there are reality based red flags popping up all over. In a similar vein - insofar as we are moving in the direction of making Computers, which are supposedly being designed more and more to be "like us", "indispensable" products, extensions of ourselves, without which, increasingly, we "cannot function" - I think we REALLY NEED to need to pay attention to what natural systems of organization have taught us.

So I going on and on because i am begging folks like yourself to help us go in that direction - any one who likes Judy Collins (Whale song ...), with your facile humor - can pun the way you do, can explain to us "mortals" about this the universe of bits (which always seem to be byting me in the a ..), is precisely the kind of folk we need to "make it happen" )

I know this stuff is "off topic" - but not really ... In any case, if you need to put it somewhere else - PLEASE just tell me where, and how to get there ....

[Tom T.]

.....(am 2 fingered typist and try to edit for grammar, spelling and clarity), pressed "preview" - took me, not to "preview", but back to "control panel" where, apparently, i had to log in again and when i did and came back here, my response had disappeared ... I may try response again, but this time will pre-type it on separate "text" page and transfer so if it disappears again, I will still have it

Ditto on the typing. (and proofread -- does it show?). ... If my post starts running more than a few sentences or couple of paragraphs, I'll always copy it to a text doc, re-copying along the way, or just compose it there and transfer it here. Yahoo Mail has an "auto-save draft" feature (built-in): If you're in the Compose box for more than a few minutes, it will start saving your drafts every so many minutes. If you lose it, or the connection drops, or whatever, the last save is still in your Drafts folder. That would be nice here, but in the meantime, note that you can manually click "Save draft" at the bottom, as often as you like, then click the Reply button again, click Load draft, and choose the most recent one (if more than one). Continue adding to it; lather, rinse, repeat.

It's easier just to do it in a simple text doc, Doc.
(just ran over my own self-imposed limit, and copied the above to said document.)

pressed "preview" - took me, not to "preview", but back to "control panel" ...

What control panel? The machine's (operating system) Control Panel (although I think that's Windows-only), or this forum's User Control Panel? If the latter, why did you need to be there? It's for changing your board preferences and reading/writing PMs (private messages to other users, which should be used only when the message is genuinely privacy-sensitive, since the whole idea of a forum is to share knowledge and ideas with everyone).

If you got e-mail notification of my post, clicking that should take you to the Login page, and after logging in, you should be taken directly to the post about which you were notified. I can't imagine why "Preview" would take you to your User Control Panel. ... Do you whitelist script from forums.informaction.com? (or just informaction.com) If you trust NoScript to protect your browser from evil scripting, you can probably trust that the guy who has donated thousands of hours of his life to create and enhance this tool probably isn't going to run an evil script himself.

Is there a time limit, where if you spend "too long" the place "logs you out"?

All web sites do that, although the "keep-alive" time limit is set by whoever administers the site. The reason is the same as why you can park for only 10 minutes in the spaces right in front of the store, for loading your groceries or whatever -- you are creating a connection through the Internet pipeline to a server (computer) at the other end. Like anything else in life, a server has only so much capacity. If you are idle for an hour, you're tying up capacity that could be used by others. One way of attacking a site is to flood it with connection requests (usually from a vast number of hacked computers that are remote-controlled by one evil-doer), so that no one else can connect, called a "Denial of Service" attack, or DoS. (if from multiple machines, add "Distributed", or DDoS.)

I'm not certain, but at this site, I think it's about 45 minutes to an hour. It may be as short as 30 min., but I think we had some discussion, and it was lengthened.

Note that one way to keep that connection alive is to interact with the site in any way -- open a new tab and click on another post. This refreshes the timer on the connection (starts it back at zero), like a stopwatch.

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But the reason i refer to your example - is it seems to me there should be a place, "on-line" where one can "bring in" one's old machine and get a "repainted grill" with new bolts.

eBay may do that for you in some cases, though I haven't used it. Amazon has a similar public marketplace. Someone who had a brand new router sitting in her garage, unused, put if up for sale there, and I got it for a bit more than half the best price of the same model new from a store.

"Replace the HD? It was 4 GB, not quite enough to hold the WINDOWS folder. ... The problem with putting in a larger drive is that laptop MOBOs are very model-specific, and not quite as flexible as desktops. Would have needed a faster CPU than the 450 MHz -- also not compatible."

Don't know what a MOBO is, but why not a portable one you can plug in to the USB or Firewire or whatever?

I hate people *in any field* who use jargon among those not experienced in that field, including myself, the minute I posted that.

"MOBO" = Motherboard, the fundamental backbone of the whole machine, which interconnects everything, including those USB and FIrewire ports and drives. So running it from USB -- I think you get the picture, but my bad. It's deep inside the machine. That CPU, RAM, and hard drive that you read about in the linked parody all connect to that. Manufacturers buy components from different vendors, at different price points, with different capabilities. Don't you need to find a donor match, on at least 5/6 alleles, plus blood type, RH, etc., before doing a transplant? (Redeem myself by using an analogy in the other's field, I hope. )
It's similar with computers.

There is some flexibility, but it's greater in desktops, where there is more physical room to accommodate various things, though still not unlimited. Laptops are even more limited, for space reasons. Consider cooling capacity (on both). If you replaced the 200-HP engine in your Toyota with a 425-hp engine from a 1969 Dodge Hemi, (it probably wouldn't fit in the same space in the first place), would the existing radiator provide enough cooling? Extend that analogy to the fuel lines, clutch, transmission, etc...

Electronics create heat, and cannot tolerate heat. A faster CPU probably creates more heat. Or a hard drive that spins at 10,000 RPM vs. 5,400 RPM. Etc. So you now need bigger or more cooling fans. And both the CPU and hard drive, and the fans themselves, would use more electricity, so a laptop would need a bigger battery, or the life of one charge becomes very short. Even in a desktop, there are limits. And upgrading X may also involve upgrading Y, Z, A, B, ... Q.
For example, the video display "card" (integrated circuit card), sound card, network interface card (NIC), for both wired and wireless access (two different cards there) -- and many other devices, must all be within a certain range. Laptops are pretty much designed as an integrated (there's that word again) set of matched components, often not swappable, although most do have an extra slot for adding a second memory (RAM) stick. And you can upgrade the first slot, if you don't mind throwing away the original and buying a replacement with more capacity.

Design specs often do improve over time, including the fundamental communications of the operating system. Some of this is "hard-coded" as we say, or hard-wired. Windows has done a good job with "back-compatibility", so that older programs may run on newer machines, but there are still limits. ... enough, I think you get the picture.

And if you had a "universal" one that you could program for the make and model of your machine - like those "universal remote controls", that would be, as they say "awesome" (or am I dating myself ...)

Just the opposite. Read up on the development of the personal computer. Many designs competed. IBM gained a commanding share, to where everyone wanted to be "IBM-compatible". Which meant, Microsoft MS-DOS. Then Apple came up with a graphic user interface (GUI), meaning desktops and icons and pretty pictures instead of a black-and-white (or green-and-white) screen with a single line on which to input text and commands. ("Command line" -- you can still access that in modern Windows systems, and it's very useful for those who know how to use it. Ditto the Mac equivalent.) Apple became the market leader.

Then MS finally caught up, with Windows 3.1, and by the mid-1990s, had regained dominance. But the two systems are completely incompatible with each other, as are various systems made for custom installation ("Linux-based"). Some emulators will allow programs from one to run on another. But the argument over which is best is eternal, and the competition is beneficial.

As far as faster CPU's - why not a setup where speed is determined by how hard you press the gas peddle, as in a car? Or is that a dumb analogy ...

It's not dumb. I wish you had Windows, so that we could be talking about the same thing, as I'm not Mac-experienced, but in Windows, you can easily open a little window that shows your CPU usage in both numerical and dynamic (moving) graph form. What will happen -- I stopped typing for a while, and the usage settled to between 2% and 5%. If I launch a new program -- say, Open Office (free, and better than Microsoft's) the usage will briefly spike to 100%, to get that program launched as quickly as possible (load everything that's needed into RAM; display a blank document on screen, etc.) -- then settle back to the 5-10% needed to be typing this.

*But* -- processors run in "clock cycles". Any given operation takes so many clock cycles. This speed *is* fixed, and you can read it in your specs. This machine: 1.6 GHz, meaning 1 billion 600 million cycles per second. My other (somewhat newer) machine: 2 GHz (two billion cycles per second.) The *speed* is set by the chip (processor) manufacturer, but the amount of capacity used (data streams running through the processor) varies with need. Faster CPU also means more expensive at any given moment, although both the speed of processors and the storage capacity of RAM and hard drives has increased dramatically over the years while falling in price. Those numbers would be laughable to an expensive machine bought today. (I'm poor-but-honest, so both were bottom-of-the-iine.)

The current top-end laptop from the same maker has 16x as much RAM, 15x the hard drive capacity, a quad-core processor (sort of like having four separate processors, with a traffic cop allocating things, so that one high-memory program, like, say, video editing, can use one or two cores, while another core takes care of simple stuff like writing a word document) - vs. my obsolete single core CPU. Some desktops have dual 4-core processors, or four 2-core processors. There's no way that those could fit in this machine, no slots on the motherboard (MOBO) to connect them, not enough juice to run them, not enough fans to cool the chassis (CPUs often have their own cooling, but heat still is leaked into the rest) etc.

I just saw that there are now six-core processors, running at 3 or more GHz....

In the old days, some techies would "overclock" their processors to improve performance -- ramping up the processing speed -- but that has risks, not the least of which is overheating. Now, some (expensive) chips will in fact briefly speed up for high-demand situations, then return to the pre-set speed. Wow, is mine ever obsolete - but it serves the purpose because I don't place the same demands, bells, and whistles on it. But no way that I could "upgrade" this machine to any of those. Is that now clear?

And sometimes you can't - just tried to get a newer version of Flash player, and couldn't - actually, I don't even know what version i have or where it is or how to find it,

Firefox address bar, type about:plugins. Under "Shockwave Flash", you'll see the version.

Why not set the system up so the user can design his/own filing system? And i don't mean naming a new file, but actually allowing the user to make, name and place on the screen his/her own "drawer" to put them in,

I don't know about Mac, but on Windows, I can create any new files or folders I like, and name them whatever I like, and place them (almost) wherever I like), and put in them whatever I like. (Only exception being operating-system files, which shouldn't be moved, and files of your various programs, which ditto. But you don't care about those, right?) I can't believe that this is not possible on a Mac.

"Filing system", in geek-speak, refers to the means by which the operating system itself keeps track of such things, including a telephone-book-like "lookup table" called the Master File Table (in Windows, at least), which is constantly updating as you create/delete/move files. These systems are carved in stone for a given operating system, and generally shouldn't be messed with. There is some flexibility on Flash drives and other media, but again, what's set by the manufacture is usually best. But I don't think that's what you were referring to; just wanted you to know that it has a specific tech meaning.

This system was dramatically different between my Win 98 machine and the present Win XP machine. If you get bored, you can look these up in Wikipedia: W98 had filing system "FAT32"; Win XP has "NTFS". For once, the change was a genuine improvement (more redundancy = fewer crashes).

with a "master" that automatically lists the stuff in that drawer which can be easily accessed.

If you can borrow a friend's Windows machine, click Start > click Run, and in the Run box, type "explorer" (no quotes) OK or Enter. You'll see a complete tree-view pane on the left, expandable/collapsible, with the folders on the right, and you can explore the folders-within-folders etc., and all files in them. If GµårÐïåñ or any other Mac-friendly reader is still with us, please advise our friend how to do this on Mac.

I look at this stuff on the top or where ever and the labels/names make no sense to me -

As long as they're not system files, but files for your stuff, label and name them however you like.

i have to put my stuff somewhere - so I make an arbitrary pick of what is "permitted" - but then can;t remember where it is or can't find it again 'cause it was basically arbitrary the first time ...

Surely Mac has a Search function like Windows, in which you can search the entire machine (or any portion of it) for a given file by name or partial name, date, size, "Contains text: _____ " , etc.?

but if i could rearrange and relabel in my own way, or even set up a task in my own way, organizing the steps in a different order ...

You could, and I could take out your infected appendix, but it's probably best if I take a bit of med training first, or at least read up on appendectomies a bit...
Are you interested enough to do this?

Seems to me there should be a requirement that all OS are intercompatible - (guess that is what Open Source is about)

Not actually. Open Source merely means that the code used to create the program or whatever is freely available to anyone (though there may be licensing or copyright restrictions on using it -- but you can peek to see if it's OK) - versus "proprietary" software (such as Windows), where much of it is undocumented, at least for public access, and many files are heavily encoded or obscured to where the time and effort to pick apart four billion characters of code just isn't worth it -- and they'd sue you for reusing or selling it, anyway. The "Linux-based" systems mentioned earlier are generally open-source, but they're not compatible with Mac and Windows, and some of the various distributions produced by various entities may not be entirely compatible with each other.

Firefox is open-source code, but the reason that it will run on Mac, Windows, and Linux is that they make different versions for each.

Why not a system for computers like Home Depot for DIY home repairs? With off the shelf parts and diagrams and all that?

Many ardent hobbyists have built their own computers. You could also build your own car, buying engines, brakes, etc. -- but in both cases, it takes a lot more time, and usually costs more, than those made by large manufacturers. Henry Ford discovered the same thing -- something about "mass production" or something.

My first computer, with the 4 GB hard drive, cost $800. The current one, much faster, more capacious, and more powerful, cost $700, despite inflation. I just saw on my manufacturer's web site a laptop for $379, even more powerful, faster, and capacious. Competition among mass producers of computers, and of their components (hard drives, processors, etc.) brings performance up and prices down.

As for repairs, replacing a hard drive on a desktop is as easy as a few screws and a plug-in "ribbon wire" connector to our friend, the motherboard. Stuff is a bit more complicated on the heavily-compressed laptops, because you have to take apart some things to get to other things, but DIY repairs are definitely possible. Again, if you have the tools and knowledge, you can fix your own car or repair your own roof, plumbing, etc., and if you don't, you call or go to someone who does. Right?

Maybe these sites are supposed to be the equivalent, don't know ... Believe it or not, i am a DIYer, a tinkerer, an "inventor" ... Give me a vice-grip, a screw driver and some nuts and bolts (oh, and i forgot, some aluminum tubing ... and i will tackle about anything.

Computers, in so far as they ARE "tools" fir us to use, should be like that, IMO -

So should a heart transplant. Unfortunately, both the human body and computers are incredibly complex. Lay persons may take both for granted, because they're unaware of the variety and complexity of functions happening inside, from the palpable (coordinated auricular-ventricular contraction-relaxation to produce a "heartbeat" - mess up the Q-T interval or go off-rhythm, "arrhythmia", and the system is fried, e. g.) to the invisible (metabolism at the cellular level, e. g.).

"such as CT ....

Hmmmm, how did we ever diagnose anything before CT ...?

With invasive procedures, riskier than radiation, not that I'm a big fan of unnecessary radiation. Also, guides (surgical) procedures more accurately...

I agree they are useful, sometimes, but are, IMO overused,

Absolutely. Anything useful can be over-used (or misused). Doesn't make it not-useful. I can use a knife to kill someone, but I hope they don't do away with knives, because they make cutting food a lot easier.

Same with wonder drugs, sometimes are worse than the disease, produce side effects which then need more drugs to treat, etc - not mention making a hole in your wallet ....

Preaching to the choir again, Brother, esp. when we see *a perfect analogy to our computer discussion*: The use of patented, brand-name drugs when older generic ones are every bit as good (or better) and cost much less.

There really is a reason I have "responded" to this post of yours in the way that I have and that is not to just go on and on and

Like I haven't done that?

and that is i have just checked out your offsite post on the bottom - about how computers work - best explanation i have ever seen,

Thank you, kind Sir. No one has commented on that link since I posted it, nor has anyone commented at the site where it's posted (no registration required to read, vote, and comment), so it's good to know that at least one reader found it useful. I hope more have, even if they haven't said anything, and I hope more do.

and it has occurred to me that you, and perhaps others, like guardian, are just the kind of person(s) who has/have the approach and the know how, and perhaps the motivation, to make this stuff happen ...

We can't take on Microsoft and Apple, but GµårÐïåñ does indeed create custom applications (programs) for those who need them, which may have nothing to do with "commodity" systems like Mac and Windows. But that costs a lot more than an OTS (Off-The-Shelf) system...

Most Linux-based systems are free, but they require a fair amount of tech knowledge to install and run, and GµårÐïåñ has elsewhere stated that overall, on balance, he doesn't think they are clearly superior to the commercial systems. Of course, you will find advocates for each.

With regard to medicine - insofar as our bodies are "necessary" for us, although i spent years of training in how to "manipulate" them in "clever" ways, i have come to understand that Mother Nature has already "invented" all the best designs and approaches and cures and that if we pay attention to the "basics" - good organic food, clean air and water, exercise - we may well not need all that hi-tech, super expensive stuff

Preaching to the choir again ...

In a similar vein - insofar as we are moving in the direction of making Computers, which are supposedly being designed more and more to be "like us", "indispensable" products, extensions of ourselves, without which, increasingly, we "cannot function" - I think we REALLY NEED to need to pay attention to what natural systems of organization have taught us.

"Human Factors Engineering" also becoming more ignored. But today's youth grow up with TV in their cribs and an IPhone when they're six or seven, so they take the current state of the art for granted, just as we take airline flight for granted, yet it was a quirky toy but a century ago.

So I going on and on because i am begging folks like yourself to help us go in that direction - any one who likes Judy Collins (Whale song ...), with your facile humor - can pun the way you do, can explain to us "mortals" about this the universe of bits

Any way that I can help, please let me know. But as for starting my own company to produce computers or operating systems... Were I to do so, I'd focus more on what an e-friend has spent his life on, and that is *security*. (Isn't that why you're at a *security* forum? -- because the products as they came from the vendor, wheter MS or Firefox, aren't safe enough out of the box?) But simplicity helps security, and complexity is always the enemy of security.

(which always seem to be byting me in the a ..)

Seem to be a pretty good punster yourself -- and I defy the geek stereotype by believing that humor is both necessary (to keep us all from going bonkers) and useful, to make learning more palatable and attractive. In my experience, the stereotype has a good bit of truth -- not everyone appreciates, likes, or even understands the humor. (Dr.Sheldon Cooper on "The Big Bang Theory" TV sitcom).

I know this stuff is "off topic" - but not really ... In any case, if you need to put it somewhere else - PLEASE just tell me where, and how to get there ....

If it gets moved, and you get an email notification of the reply, that link will take you to the new location. And you can always click "View your posts" on the Board Index, or "Search (your) posts" in your user profile.

OK, that's my 4,000 words' worth.