Like to hear this first hand....

General discussion about the NoScript extension for Firefox
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luntrus
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Like to hear this first hand....

Post by luntrus » Fri May 01, 2009 10:11 pm

Hi Giorgio Maone and other users of NoScript extension,

I know Giorgio Maone and Wladimir Palant had some online discussions before, but now the maker of ABP is attacking the NoScript extension model here: http://adblockplus.org/blog/attention-noscript-users
Before I post into a discussion on this issue on the avast webforum, I like to hear the official views on these accusations from the developer of the NoScript extension himself. Is there an issue?

luntrus
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Giorgio Maone
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Re: Like to hear this first hand....

Post by Giorgio Maone » Fri May 01, 2009 10:38 pm

Hi luntrus, you can start here.
I'm currently working at the "prompt user beforehand" 1.9.2.5 version, as anticipated here for instance, well before Wladimir's "outing".
This means that I'm hard on the code right now, and don't have much time for posting rebuttals here and there, even though it seems a moment needing them.
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davidc
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Re: Like to hear this first hand....

Post by davidc » Sat May 02, 2009 4:37 am

I have read the *rants* by both sides as well as a lot of comments in general.

Maybe I am wrong, but this seems to boil down to a simple point:

One Add-on, meant to block ads, is being disabled by another add-on for the express purpose of showing adds WITHOUT the users explicit permission.

Did I miss something or isn't that essentially what is going on here? If this message gets deleted, or I get banned for asking that simple question, I will be filing a AMO complaint.
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Tom T.
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Re: Like to hear this first hand....

Post by Tom T. » Sat May 02, 2009 4:54 am

davidc wrote:I have read the *rants* by both sides as well as a lot of comments in general.

Maybe I am wrong, but this seems to boil down to a simple point:

One Add-on, meant to block ads, is being disabled by another add-on for the express purpose of showing adds WITHOUT the users explicit permission.

Did I miss something or isn't that essentially what is going on here? If this message gets deleted, or I get banned for asking that simple question, I will be filing a AMO complaint.

It's not going to be deleted and you're not going to be banned, at least by this Mod, for asking a simple question in good faith. (Threats aren't necessary either, and tend to cast doubt on the "good faith", but let's just let that go.) The issue has been discussed extensively. Please note above that Giorgio is trying to produce a solution that will make all parties happy, and he can't do that and answer posts at the same time. What if we were to give him a day or two to himself to do that, rather than continue the bombardment? Then we can see what he comes up with, and then feedback on that version would be appropriate.

EVERYONE, please consider this post before continuing this thread. A "cease-fire" or "truce" if you will, while a treaty is negotiated.

Thank you all for your thoughtfulness. I'm off to the Middle East now to solve the Israeli-Palestinian issue.
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Re: Like to hear this first hand....

Post by Giorgio Maone » Sat May 02, 2009 4:57 am

@davidc:
It's not exactly the way you put, as you can read from here on if you've got patience.
davidc wrote:If this message gets deleted, or I get banned for asking that simple question, I will be filing a AMO complaint.

Not that I'm very afraid of that, just look how it's been vandalized in the past few hours. It's just not my habit censoring here and here.
However I hope all this mess will be at least partially cleaned by NoScript 1.9.2.5, which adds the prompt that has been stupidly omitted in 1.9.2.4. It's 6.57 AM here, and I stayed up all night to speed this update scheduled for tomorrow evening before Wladimir's explosive post.

v 1.9.2.5
=====================================================================
+ One-time startup prompt to ask users if they wants to install/keep
the AdBlock Plus "NoScript Development Support Filterset" deployed
with NoScript 1.9.2.3 and above
x Fixed filterset bug: it could be disabled but not removed.
x Fixed "Attempt to fix JS links" not working for drop-down lists on
Gecko < 1.9 (thanks therube for report)
x Updated zh-CN translation
x Updated el-GR translation
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adventureboy
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Re: Like to hear this first hand....

Post by adventureboy » Sat May 02, 2009 12:56 pm

Thanks for making the changes. I have enabled the ads on your page because of it.
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Re: Like to hear this first hand....

Post by Giorgio Maone » Sat May 02, 2009 1:16 pm

adventureboy wrote:Thanks for making the changes. I have enabled the ads on your page because of it.

Just to be precise, 1.9.2.6 superseded 1.9.2.5 some minutes after, with more drastic cleanup measures.
Here's the changelog:

v 1.9.2.6
=====================================================================
+ NoScript now automatically removes the controversial "NoScript
Development Support Filterset" deployed with NoScript 1.9.2.3 and
above on startup, permanently and with no questions asked.
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itsnotvalid
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Re: Like to hear this first hand....

Post by itsnotvalid » Sat May 02, 2009 2:30 pm

As I see 1.9.2.6 getting to my updates, I think it is okay to donate $10 for your work as I would put that way. I seldom donate to open source projects but this time you made a right move. As a student I have not much money to work with so may be this is something I think I should do to support this move.
Thanks for creating Noscript and Flashgot!
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Re: Like to hear this first hand....

Post by davidc » Sat May 02, 2009 2:57 pm

Tom T. wrote:
davidc wrote:EVERYONE, please consider this post before continuing this thread. A "cease-fire" or "truce" if you will, while a treaty is negotiated.


Negotiated?

Still didn't get an answer to my question. Once again, doesn't this boil down to:

"One Add-on, meant to block ads, is being disabled by another add-on for the express purpose of showing adds WITHOUT the users explicit permission."

Is that not EXACTLY what is happening? It's a simple question ... it should be a simple answer. Yes or No?
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PeterSP
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Re: Like to hear this first hand....

Post by PeterSP » Sat May 02, 2009 3:17 pm

davidc wrote:
Tom T. wrote:
davidc wrote:EVERYONE, please consider this post before continuing this thread. A "cease-fire" or "truce" if you will, while a treaty is negotiated.


Negotiated?

Still didn't get an answer to my question. Once again, doesn't this boil down to:

"One Add-on, meant to block ads, is being disabled by another add-on for the express purpose of showing adds WITHOUT the users explicit permission."

Is that not EXACTLY what is happening? It's a simple question ... it should be a simple answer. Yes or No?


No, that is not EXACTLY what is happening.
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Re: Like to hear this first hand....

Post by capacityjunting » Sat May 02, 2009 4:20 pm

davidc wrote:"One Add-on, meant to block ads, is being disabled by another add-on for the express purpose of showing adds WITHOUT the users explicit permission."

Is that not EXACTLY what is happening? It's a simple question ... it should be a simple answer. Yes or No?


That is exactly what happened, and why there has been a mad scramble to release update after update to attempt to fix the situation and why I am no longer a NoScript user. I recreated my engire Firefox installation from scratch, sans-Noscript, just to be on the safe side.

The irony is staggering.
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aZmoDen
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Re: Like to hear this first hand....

Post by aZmoDen » Sun May 03, 2009 3:29 pm

Well i for one am going to continue to use this product, why? i like my porn. Id rather see a couple of adds instead of having my online profiles hijacked and virii installed.
Yeah this was a dumb move but srsly, the app works and a quick check when i sit down at my pc each day to moniter whats going on isnt such a hardship for some piece of mind.

The whole problem seems to be really about money. It costs to produce things like this. Time spent working on this is time your not spending with
a) your family / new kid
b) other projects that could be profitable
c) work.

Some of my best mates went apeshit when they heard about what had happened and it wasnt very surprising that not one of them had given a cent to this or ANY other project.
If you dont support your programmer guru's that make your browsing experience faster / safer / cooler and just more fun, then you either get one of two options.
The project development stops and the WHOLE community is poorer for it, or the author finds a way to make some money. So ffs DONATE, $1 from each user would be plenty.

One last thought, Does anyone use utorrent? if so read up on what true sell-out'ism is about.
Go and do abit of research on what true underhanded money grubbing is all about. This NoScript problem? how about mountain out of molehill.

*shrug* my thoughts on the matter.

*edit* it just occurred to me that this post should be put elsewhere, as saying this here is more like preaching to the choir.
aZmoDen
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Re: Like to hear this first hand....

Post by Tom T. » Mon May 04, 2009 5:37 am

aZmoDen wrote:*edit* it just occurred to me that this post should be put elsewhere, as saying this here is more like preaching to the choir.
aZmoDen

Feel free to re-post it at the main thread (the one with over 10,000 views). I don't think anyone will delete it as a duplicate. I surely won't.
I'm not moving it myself because it was your idea and so should be your option to do so.
Thanks for your input.
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Re: Like to hear this first hand....

Post by GµårÐïåñ » Mon May 04, 2009 6:10 am

You got great points, I certainly won't delete it either and you are welcome to copy and repost to the other thread if you wish or if you REALLY want it moved, we can do that but it serves a purpose here too. As for uTorrent, it was a rip off of the eMule (post eDonkey) and Azureus project (before it was Vuze) anyway, a major bone I have with OSS where any unscrupulous person can poach someone's hard work and pass it off as their own. Yeah yeah I know open model means that you can do that but come on, let's be fair that not all do it honorably and with proper credit and reverence but rather spend most of their time just trolling to poach others' work, I am not even going to begin pointing fingers but you know who they are. The fact is that the honor system is dead or dying and no one seems to be noticing or missing it. I miss it.
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