Aquifer wrote:...However, as you point out computers are mass produced - one of a certain model is just the same as another of that model - granted you can add bells and whistles, "bigger engines" etc, but it seems to me, the desire for profit has caused introductions of incompatibility among systems that are NOT necessary or useful in terms of function
One example: I had a friend who bought a new computer shortly after I did, because she liked mine. Same maker. She opted for the mid-size laptop vs. the largest, presumably because her lap is smaller than mine. So it's a different model number. And *any* difference triggers a new model #, so that replacement parts can be correctly ordered just by entering the model number. My OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer - retain that one) has hundreds, if not thousands, of model numbers in their history and current listings.
Anyway, both of us had touchpads made by Synaptics. Some other models by the same OEM used touchpads made by Alps. Just like automakers, computer makers will solicit bids for third-party components. Whatever is the best bid at the time is, of course, best for the OEM, and helps keep the price down.
So .. I was showing her some cool "advanced" features available; she said she wanted them enabled on hers, so we did -- but the features didn't work.
Long story short: On her machine, they had installed some software pertinent to the Alps touchpad, not the Synaptics one. So the basic functions still worked, but not the advanced features. Solution: Go to the Web, download the proper software for Synaptics (for her model), and problem solved.
Annoying? Yes. But the competitive bidding keeps prices low, as in the previous post where I said that my OEM now offers laptops much faster and more powerful than mine for half the price I paid for mine, despite the fact that inflation in general (as measured by CPI) has driven prices of the "basket" of goodies that make up the CPI by about 16% since then.
When people say we shouldn't buy things made in China, I ask them whether they're willing to pay $3,000 for a US-made TV that would cost $400 if made in China. Or $30 for a pack of socks instead of $3. (The demands of the textile workers' union, as glorified by Sally Field in "Norma Rae", ended up driving the thriving textile business in the southern US out of the country altogether. Too bad they didn't make a follow-up movie depicting that.)
So ... you don't want to spend money on a new computer. How much extra would you have been willing to pay for the previous one, or for a new one, if we somehow (unconstitutionally) forbid this bidding? .. esp. as they're made overseas anyway.
Do Ford engine parts fit on a Chevy? Are you mad about that? If not, why not?
If there is a human analogy - it's like bringing gramma to the doc and him saying "Sorry, too old, no parts, get a new gramma!" Now i realize that grammas are "worth" a lot more than computers, but i think you get my drift
No, I don't. If Grandma has a terminal illness, or is *simply dying of old age*, there's nothing the doctor can do for her.
Try buying parts for your 1964 Chevy. You'll have to go through special-order catalogs, etc. How long are manufacturers to continue to bear the expense of making and stocking parts for which the demand is steadily declining, to the point of minuscule?
... shovels are old technology, too, but they are recognizable and reparable without an advanced degree
Comparing shovels and computers is really getting silly.
Can you repair any automobile ever made? Any air conditioner/refrigerator/appliance? Any jet engine? Any satellite-launching rocket? Any satellite? Any television? Any locomotive? My DVR? (I'll pay you.) Any cell phone?
- we should have tools that don't require an advanced degree or months of training in a system that is NOT intuitive for many, if we are to insist on using tools those for everything, "and its grandmother", at the heart of our society ...
It's hard to understand why one would expect that something as complex as a computer would be repairable by anyone with no training whatsoever. People take years of training and apprenticeship just to become plumbers or HVAC techs.
And, as i mentioned, methinks this is a major stumbling bloc in terms of the storing and sharing of med information
Which I despise as a huge threat to my most private matters. *I* will give the information, or give permission for sharing it. The idea that all med info will be in one huge online database, as GE brags about, is scary-frightening. Have you not read of the many database hacks of credit card companies, one of which was in the last week or two? Of banks? Of
computer security firms?
Here, I agree that "newer is not better". Since we can't secure these, and since I don't want some clerk with a GED having access to my life's medical history, I'd rather stay with paper. I'll trade the very slight increase in risk in some theoretical unconscious situation (wouldn't I be wearing a MedAlert bracelet?) for protecting my privacy, thank you.
OR at least there should be built in "translators" ....
Here's one, free and available to anyone.There are many, many others, for practically every significant language on Earth.
it's as if when speaking or writing a language there are some words you are not allowed to use because they "belong" to someone else, or there are parts of the dictionary you cannot open - I don't need permission to use English, but computer languages are "copyrighted" - I can use the end result, but i cannot construct anything "new" with that language if I am not allowed access.
Not true. Some are; many are freely available. You can write your own MS-DOS files (I do, for routine chores like cleanup and backup), your own JavaScript, Assembly, your own
C and
C++, and a lot of other computer languages.
Much of Windows is written in C and C++. You can write your own code in those languages, at no cost, but you can't use Microsoft's code (files), which they spent a lot of money to develop (such as it is
), without paying them a licensing fee. How is that unfair?
I understand the usefulness of copyright for some purposes - why "create" if you don't get paid, right? (read sarcasm) (read some of Daniel Pink's stuff on motivation, if you haven't ..) But here's the thing - that was fine when computers were an oddity, but now that they are incorporated into our DNA (literally, I suspect soon enough), they should be considered to belong, IMO, to the "public domain".
So, you punish success.
When computers were not affordable to the general public, you were OK with them being patented. Now that the majority of households in the non-third-world can afford them, you want to punish those who did the work that resulted in making them affordable. I don't know who Daiel Pink is -- sounds like a pinko to me
-- but read "Atlas Shrugged", or the rest of Ayn Rand's fiction and non-fiction, and see what happens when you remove incentive, reward failure (coughbailoutscough) and punish success. One reason that jobs are leaving the US is that the US has the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. (IIRC, Japan once did, but they lowered it recently.)
Although I understand that individual words or notes, generally, are not copyrighted, but their "unique" combinations, (hey did you have to pay JC to use Both Sides Now in your parody on the site i was referring to? );
You don't have to grin. It's well established in US copyright law that parody is a legitimate form of social commentary, and falls under the Fair Use doctrine of the copyright laws. On the other hand, George Harrison had to pay a lot of money to the owner of the copyright of The Chiffons' "He's So Fine", because "My Sweet Lord" did not *parody* the first one, including *acknowledging ownership* of the melody (as our parody did do), but rather, claimed it as his own creation. Nowhere there do we claim that we created JC's melody.
This has been extensively litigated. Weird Al Yankovich makes a living from parody (among other things), and courts consistently uphold this right.
.. by the way, that's the other reason I asked you to pass along the link, rather than just copy the words: So proper credit is given. One of my songs was found on the web site of a British rugby club, without author name or attribution. I wrote them a polite letter; they posted it, along with the link; and the members had a good time roasting their teammate who had (knowingly or un-) violated copyright.
I despise the idea of being able to "patent" human DNA sequences, e.g.
Nothing that occurs in nature can be patented. If someone spends years and millions producing a gene splice that cures or prevents cancer, I think they're entitled to make whatever they can on it during the patent period. Somehow, I think those suffering from cancer, and their loved ones, would agree.
As for kids growing up with it - man, you hit a sore point - they are being taught to think like computers
What bothers me is that they're taught to let the computer think for them, and so don't learn math, etc. Hence the cash registers at McDonald's™ have pictures of Big Macs, fries, etc., rather than numbers on them.
We weren't allowed to take calculators into math tests in my day, because they didn't exist.
I once was hired to tutor a high-school boy in second-year algebra, but discovered that he didn't know the "times tables" (multiplying single-digit numbers in one's head) that used to be taught in third grade. (I learned them when I was about three or four, I think.) I told his mother that there was nothing I could do until this improved, and that we needed to work on this first. She stopped the tutoring service.
i hate stuff that makes me feel stupid and computers do that in spades,
Do you know how to build a rocket and launch it into space so that it can place a satellite in orbit? No? Does this make you feel stupid?
but i have also developed what I call "chemicalism" - i much prefer carbon based life forms to silicon based life forms,
Since both C and Si are chemicals, shouldn't that be "carbonism"?
they are working on programs and simulacra that can "converse" to the point where you don't know whether you are talking to a silicon machine, or a carbon "machine"...
Turing test.
If you want to teach computers, teach the language
It's taught. Have you signed up for any courses, or read any books?
Do you think I was born with this knowledge, which (I hope) is steadily expanding?
This isn't even a profession for me; it's an avocation or hobby. (The entire
Support Team is unpaid volunteers.) It took a lot of time to acquire what (comparatively little) knowledge I have, and continues to do so. I'll teach you if you pay me my hourly rate, or you can start reading and studying.
funny that one of the rules used to be that the letters you put together had to be recognizable, make some kind of sense - with computers, it seems, there is a premium on nonsense words
In the Old Days, as noted, memory and storage were very scarce and expensive. Do you remember the
Y2k problem? Programmers used two digits for the year: 1979 was written as 79. The problem was that, say, home mortgages often have a term of 30 years. So one taken out in 1979 would run until 2009. But at 2000, the computer would read 09 as 1909. They did this because those two extra characters made THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE on early systems.
Nonsense?
MS-DOS commands. "Delete" and "rename" are pretty obvious, right? However, developers shortened those to "del' and "ren", partly because of what's said above, and partly because when you have to type thousands or millions of characters of code, little savings amount up very quickly. (I use both commands in my DOS "batch scripts", and yes, use the shorter form.) I don't type any better than you, and perhaps some programmers don't, either.
NoScript has about 2 million characters of code (don't even think about it, dhouwn
), all written by one individual (who gives you the product for free, supported only by donations and a few ads at the home page). Imagine if, like "del' and "ren", those words had to be spelled out. Now we're at 4 million characters, for no good reason.
Do you never use abbr. when you write, etc.? Contractions? You never say/write "don't", "can't", "you're" -- et cetera?
Would any but you folks be able to recognize nonsense computese?
You don't have to be able to read engineering blueprints for a car to be able to drive a car.
OTOH, were you born knowing how to drive a car, or did someone teach you? Did you have to practice to pass the driving test, and study to pass the written test?
They are learning our language - why shouldn't theirs be taught as well? One is a distinct disadvantage in a conversation when one side only knows one language and the other knows both.
Who's stopping you from getting started?
Do you realize that due to the influence of British and American scientists in early computer research, virtually all programming is done in English?
So programmers whose native language is Japanese, Persian, Hebrew, Chinese, Russian -- all of which
even use different alphabets from English must learn the English alphabet and language. Even those using the same alphabet, such as Italian, must learn English.
Do you find it odd that this forum is in English-only, given that the owner, developer, and administrator of it, is from -- oh, look at his web site, or just his avatar on any of his 6,000+ posts here. And his English is better than many native-born US citizens.
(although our schools are partly responsible for a decline in the latter).
so why should I be forced to have to learn a new language just to function in a the world i have lived in since birth
You don't. You need only learn how to use a computer, not how to program one. Just as you need to learn how to drive a car, not how to design and build one.
if I don't want to live in that "wonderful new" world ... I prefer visual and verbal communication
OK. Drive to the bank during their limited hours instead of using online banking. Drive around town shopping for the best deals instead of shopping online.
Write letters, pay postage, and wait several days for them to get across town, or several weeks for them to get to Australia, instead of sending an e-mail that gets to Australia in fractions of a second, or a few seconds, or at most a few minutes if the traffic is heavy. Go to the library and look up stuff in the card catalog instead of using Wikipedia or search engines. Problem solved.
Price of gasoline bothering you? Join an Amish community. Problem solved. (absolutely *no* disrespect intended.)
I think you get my point.
We have selected out not only those who think and process differently, but who have less money
I do find it ironic that my state has a web site where you can apply for food stamps online. If you can't afford food....
You do know that many public libraries offer free computer use, and "Internet cafes" may rent per time used? These are common among countries not at the top of the affluence list.
We are starting with the "brain" and have spent only about, what 100 years, and already we have put these machines in charge of much of our lives ....
Just as we put the automobile in charge of our lives. It's a *choice* people make, because they find it better, overall, than the alternatives. (Many in New York City don't own a car. Move there. Or be a self-sufficient farmer.)
Monsanto is messing around with the fundamental genomes of many plants, patenting them, spreading them around and requiring folks to buy new seed from them every time they plant.
Many are activists against GMO, to the point that the cornstarch I buy brags that it contains no GMO corn. Organic sources will still sell you organic seeds.
Our commons is being restricted and privatized for the benefit of a few
The work and thought of individuals is not a commons, but belongs to that individual -- unless the individual is a slave. Some people think slavery is bad.
biodiversity, the stuff of future adaptations, is being lost .. .
Agree, as far as extincting species of plants and animals.
Sp, with regard to computers - we are starting out at the Monsanto level - with very few "systems"
You have no idea how many systems are out there. You see only the highly-visible ones.
I may need an "expert" to take out my appendix, but i only have one of those - don't have to go back and get it removed multiple times.
True, but is that appendectomy the only time in your life that you'll ever need medical care -- including your birth?
Don't you get regular checkups? From a doctor who went to med school, racked up 150k in debt, spent four years in low-paid internship and residencies, or from your next-door neighbor?
For the things i need to do multiple times like eating, drinking, elimination, breathing.etc. -- I know instinctively
Did you know instinctively how to drive a car? But you probably do that every day. Bodily functions must be instinctive, or the race perishes (we all die when we go to sleep, if we don't "instinctively" keep breathing. I've used a computer when very sleepy -- not a good idea -- but never while asleep.)
me thinks it is time to say "whoa"
And go back to the pre-computer era?
Among other things, do you have any idea of how much the cost of living would increase?
- if we are to use this stuff, we must be taught its language AND we must be able to participate in the rule making and the major functions should be considered,
Did any of the automakers consult you before creating steering mechanisms, braking, transmission, ... ? You can choose from among the competing designs, though.
a part of the creative commons
How much did you, personally, contribute to this "commons" of computer hardware and software?
.... As it is, folks like you have enormous power in this system - you may deny it, but i suspect you really do know it
What the ****?
I'm an unpaid volunteer forum moderator and support rep for a single software product. I can make suggestions to Giorgio, and I've gotten Microsoft to fix a certificate mismatch error on their secure site (when the certificate was renewed, they made the same error), and I've gotten an online bank to change a practice that leaked private financial data to third parties, by screaming my head off -- but I don't know what you think my superpowers are. Create a new computer and a new operating system and a thousand new programs that are all fixable by anyone, and where all the code is easily understandable with no learning at all?
Do you have any idea how many questions are posted here by users who won't even read the freaking
NoScript FAQ? (I answer them anyway, or point them to the FAQ.) Those FAQ are in fairly plain English, as are the many sticky-post guides I've written here, along with
Alan Baxter's excellent
General Troubleshooting Instructions and Grumpy Old Lady's "Self-Help Firefox Links", and those get widely ignored also.
... You are using YOUR "power" for good - but shouldn't we aim for a society where that power is widely disseminated in a "democratic" fashion?
By letting those who know nothing of the issues control those issues? That's
working out really well for the US Congress....
Knowledge is power - and no system, IMO should be designed so that, though many can "use" it, only a few have control
You mean, like the traffic laws? Or the criminal laws? Or the civil laws that govern tort litigation?
Do you have to have ownership or control of Wal-Mart to shop there?
If you want more power, gain more knowledge. Or quit using the things that those with knowledge brought to you, whether it's computers, shopping malls, automobiles, airlines (You do realize that the Federal Aviation Administration makes the Federal Aviation Regulations -- not talking about TSA here -- and you have no control over those? So, do you never fly anywhere?)
I think the analogy is invalid.
Now you can say we don't understand the language of DNA and WE work fine - but we, our entire individual systems have evolved out of the application of that language - and that language is the same for ALL carbon based forms, it is "organic" - we can "recognize" each other, if we choose to do so - computer language was invented by a few homo sapiens
Please stop making statements about which you have no knowledge. Research how many different computer languages have been invented, by how many people, and they're still at it.
Or, taking you at your word, it took us humans 4 million years to evolve to our present state. Perhaps after 4 million more years, computing will have evolved to the state you desire, or to some other state. (It will be different from what it is now, if humans are still around then.)
, an "alien", not an innate tongue, maybe all computers understand bits and bytes, but we, as a group, by and large, don't know how to construct anything useful out of them
This is the last time I'll say this: Why do you need to? You came here because of an issue which was in plain English: The toolbars menu. You were answered in plain English. Did you have to learn computer code to fix your issue? Did we tell you that you should?
Just as with nuclear power - we didn't think it through very well, IMO and the dangers are coming back to "byte" ....
Who is "we"? My power company built its nuke plants under budget, ahead of schedule, and they have been re-certified for decades beyond their original design lives. Thus reducing dependence on polluting fossil fuels and foreign sources of same, and bringing the lowest electricity rates in the state, and in the top quartile nationally for lowest rates.
More
people have
died in
Ted Kennedy's
car than in US nuclear power plant incidents.
Foreign designs, most notably Chernobyl, were vastly inferior, cutting out safety measures to cut costs, because the Soviet Union, like all socialist societies, does not value individual human life, or at least, values it below the life of the State, who owns it.
Research this, too, but in a nutshell, the Soviet design was "fail-dangerous", whereas US design is "fail-safe". Which is why, *in fact*, there was no disaster at Three Mile Island, and the "China Syndrome" could never have happened, loyal patriot Jane Fonda to the contrary notwithstanding.
i don't guess i am explaining this very well - using multiple different analogies - none of which are probably very good
For once, I agree with you.
- And that is my frustration - if we were in person, or over the phone, we could comment, ask questions, etc. where appropriate and i could tell if you were snorting, smiling, saying BS, etc.
Without computers, you and I would never have met in the first place. -- along with the many other interesting people around the world with whom I've corresponded, conversed at fora, etc.
Everything in life is a trade-off. Yes, Internet interaction is less personal, but it increases your potential pool of contacts about a million-fold.
and you are, undoubtedly, WAY past caring anyway
The conversation is interesting, but I really can't do 4,000 words every night
-- and it's not fair to users with actual issues, when I have only so much time to donate. So if this continues at all, it needs to be a lot shorter and smaller in scope, perhaps one issue at a time. (Does that give me the last word? Hmmm... well, I should get "something" for the several thousand hours I've donated.
)
In the meantime - I really do think you should write a text for kids, like the one in your parody, that they need to read as soon as they start with computers -
This is already part of school curricula, very early on. I knew someone whose 17-yr-old daughter was being taught programming in high school. I haven't said anything that no one else has said, although probably not in song-parody form. So, no money to be made there, although some of the sociopolitical ones were bought by a radio producer and syndicated nationally... off-topic.
As the woman said to WilliamJames, "It's turtles all the way down!" Cheers!
I love that anecdote, but it's another one of those stories, like drinking your finger bowl because a guest did, in which the protagonist or recipient is different,
depending on who is telling it. But thanks anyway!
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